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Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

home.treasury.gov

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Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think we will forever be organized and segregated by governments? Do you ever think a human being can be a sovereign individual in his own right, without owing fealty, taxes and morality to a government in some future? The current financial system is not all software. When i pay in crypto, i give you my money. When i pay in the current financial system I am giving you every bit of information to rob me blind a…

> Do you think we will forever be organized and segregated by governments? Since you asked, yes. I do. To me, it's like asking if a beehive will always have a queen. It's in our DNA. > Also, you're right. POW as a consensus method is flawed. But again, all V3 cryptos have essentially transitioned to delegated proof of stake at this point. I honestly don't know enough about "V3 cryptos" to speak to it, and I'm not try…

> Since you asked, yes. I do. To me, it's like asking if a beehive will always have a queen. It's in our DNA.

Not the asker, but thank you for answering this--it goes a long way toward understanding where your arguments are coming from.

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can Tether survive a net outflow? Probably not. They don't have the collateral. Luckily for Paolo & friends, their terms of service clearly state that they do not ever have to offer redemptions of USDT for dollars. Or even whatever IOUs and bits of string they may or may not have in reserve. Out of all the stable coins its the most likely to withstand a "run" because they do not have to pay you if you ask. In fact…

I don't get it. If everyone starts selling their Tether (because they're afraid of it not being able to maintain the peg), even if they can't sell the Tether back to the company, won't that crater the Tether price- possibly to zero- effectively killing the currency? Like, this happens with currencies that are pegged to the dollar. The government that's supposed to be maintaining the peg starts to run out of dollars a…

The reason it hasn't collapsed already is that all the exchanges are in on it. It's crypto's equivalent of "too big to fail."

Individuals will be told they're not customers by Tether (this happened on Twitter a while back, someone set out to prove you could and Tether stonewalled them, so he deleted his account). They're offered a piddly USDT:USD market pair on a few exchanges, like Coinbase and Kraken, as a distraction. There, they can sell their USDT to folks trying to buy it (for instance, to fund a DeFi position) or the exchange obo Tether, Inc. to keep the charade going.

Only institutional parties like exchanges, Alameda and Cumberland are "deemed customers" and they'll never redeem because they know they can't.

Everyone's in on this. I think only a court-ordered exchange liquidation could possibly end the game, like a Binance collapse for instance.

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#393
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all sounds intuitively correct, and it seems that similar arguments can be made about gold bullion, right? It costs some amount of money every year to mine, refine, transport and store it, and none of that is accruing to the actual holders of bullion. (One difference being that there is some residual value of the gold for industrial and jewellery uses, but that's hardly what's keeping the bullion price where it…

It's similar gold, yes. Gold is an unproductive asset. You are correct that there is base demand for it in the form of jewelry and electronics. In fact, a percentage of the world's gold output goes into making Bitcoin miners each year. However, its value is not supported by its demand in these industries. This is why I personally do not invest in gold. The difference is that if you shut down gold mining, existing gol…

There are still holding costs for it, though - the guards at the New York Federal Reserve don't work for free - so doesn't it have a similar "value continuously leaving the system" dynamic that suggests that it's negative-sum? Maybe the answer is that the quanta of value leaving is so minimal compared the the amount invested in the stock of bullion that "ever so slightly negative-sum" and "zero-sum" are the same to a first approximation.

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#394

How can the SEC and the Treasury let these crypto coins continue to exist when it's so rife with scams? Based on the TOS of Tether, it's clearly as scam with no protections for any investors. Why hasn't the US government regulated all these coins out of existence? I feel like it's turning into a systemic risk to our economy given how much money is being turned towards them.

Crypto-oriented startups and their investor backers are spending time and money on lobbying, that probably has at least a small effect in terms of slowing any regulatory momentum. i.e. https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-fans-are-suddenly-a-pol...

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#395
post #378

The party will come to an end soon. There are people at Treasury (FINCEN and OFAC) who find the idea of people being able to transact even thousands of dollars without them knowing about it repulsive. Having coins tied to dollars is begging for regulatory action.

If you don’t have strong checks in place to address fraud, lack of transparency and instability, you are essentially forcing regulators to get involved.

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#396
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin isn't figuratively a store of value, it actually is. It's a speculative, negative-sum MLM token. I suggest reading up on what a store of value is. [1] I'm not saying there aren't ways of monetizing it within the network - which may indeed create value, but intrinsically, it is a negative-sum asset, a mechanism of redistributing real cold hard dollars from new participants to old entrants and miners. It crea…

I'm no frothing at the mouth crypto advocate or fiat currency hating conspiracy theorist, but whatever you're trying to say, and the article you link to, seems like complete nonsense to me, and your snarky recommendation to "read up on what a store of value is" is silly. > A store of value is an asset that maintains its value, rather than depreciating. Value is just what others are willing to pay for something at a p…

> ... and the article you link to, seems like complete nonsense to me, and your snarky recommendation to "read up on what a store of value is" is silly.

Just to be clear, my point was that the classical definition of a "store of value" isn't something that goes up exponentially and flails around wildly at the whims of folks trying to liquidate leveraged positions.

It's broadly regarded as something you can purchase and expect to get your money back. Not a ton more, not a ton less, roughly what you put in. I don't think there's a single world in which any cryptocurrency falls into that definition today. Might it? It could. I don't think it will. But that's speculation, what's not speculation is that it's not one today.

The "store of value" narrative was coopted once folks in the community realized it couldn't ever actually sustain more transactions than required by a small Costco.

> Gold and other precious metals are terrible stores of value, their dollar values are incredibly volatile...

They're dramatically less volatile than cryptocurrencies which does make them better suited, however I do not personally advocate for owning metals - for exactly the reasons you rightly describe.

> Most central banks aim for 2% inflation per year, literally guaranteeing any amount to become worthless over time if stored in currency. (vs bonds or some other appreciating asset)

Modern economies intentionally split long-term stores of value from short-term medium of exchange. Currencies are inflated slowly to incentivize investment, and to maximize employment along the Philips curve. This is the charter of the Federal Reserve and most other world central banks.

> Just what. Bitcoin is strictly positive sum under any sane definition. Unlike MLMs or pyramid schemes, Bitcoin never alleges to return anything other than Bitcoin.

It doesn't allege a return, however literally every frothing at the mouth holder of crypto will allege it for you, as they are incentivized to do. Bring in more people, you get wealthier. Sound familiar? It's a decentralized MLM. It's negative-sum because miners constantly extract $60 million dollars per day, $21B per year in block rewards. These are liquidated and cause negative price pressure, socializing what amounts to a $250 transaction fee. [1]

> Neither do currencies. They're just currencies.

Which is why they don't go up in value. You can't have it both ways :) dreadful currencies go up astronomically in value, because this creates a deflationary spiral. Dreadful currencies go down a ton in value because it doesn't offer you time to productively allocate. A good currency averages a low, predictable rate of inflation.

> ... tamper-proof ledger is useful, and thus has "intrinsic value" just like toilet paper or gold.

We have yet to find a single use for it. All you can do is look at your spreadsheet cell in a web browser, or get someone else to buy it from you. You can't do anything with it. At least you can turn gold into electronics, like bitcoin miners.

[1] https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin...

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#397
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really? Or does your binance/coinbase debit card convert your crypto to USD and send dollars out via ACH?

Why would that matter? Do you believe that you aren't transacting with USD when you buy something using the VISA network? Or with apple pay? Or a check?

The purpose of the VISA network, Apple pay, and checks is to transact with USD.

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. If everyone starts selling their Tether (because they're afraid of it not being able to maintain the peg), even if they can't sell the Tether back to the company, won't that crater the Tether price- possibly to zero- effectively killing the currency? Like, this happens with currencies that are pegged to the dollar. The government that's supposed to be maintaining the peg starts to run out of dollars a…

The reason it hasn't collapsed already is that all the exchanges are in on it. It's crypto's equivalent of "too big to fail." Individuals will be told they're not customers by Tether (this happened on Twitter a while back, someone set out to prove you could and Tether stonewalled them, so he deleted his account). They're offered a piddly USDT:USD market pair on a few exchanges, like Coinbase and Kraken, as a distract…

Oh, I understand why it hasn't collapsed already.

I just don't see how Tether refusing to honor redemptions makes it more resilient to a run in progress, rather than less. If nobody wants to buy 1 USDT for a dollar, the peg will break all the same. If Tether stepped in as a buyer of last resort, that would make it more resilient- but if it doesn't, that worse for the peg, not better.

It's better for anyone with physical custody of the Tether assets I guess (they have a pile of gold to Scrooge McDuck dive into) but the currency is even more boned than if they'd propped the market up by buying Tethers back.

A 100% collateralized stablecoin that just hands everyone back their dollars if they ask can survive anything, a 50% collateralized one can spend a lot of it back into the market to prop the price up, at least for a while. But if Tether can't or won't, that's going to make maintaining the peg a whole lot harder!

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#399
post #47

This is good. The backing of stablecoins is a very real issue. As the Treasury points out, there's a very real possibility of a run. Two stablecoins have crashed so far, SafeDollar SDO, and $TITAN. They went all the way to zero. Can Tether survive a net outflow? Probably not. They don't have the collateral. Dai is really a derivative of Etherium. Dai is backed by Etherium at 150%. So value in Dai is at risk if the pr…

Titan/Iron is (was?) an algorithmic undercollateralized stablecoin pair. Iron was the $1 one actually. This is not a meaningful comparison to fully collateralized coins like USDC or Tether.

They may have their own issues, but the certainly don't have Iron's

Re: Report on Stablecoins [pdf]

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason it hasn't collapsed already is that all the exchanges are in on it. It's crypto's equivalent of "too big to fail." Individuals will be told they're not customers by Tether (this happened on Twitter a while back, someone set out to prove you could and Tether stonewalled them, so he deleted his account). They're offered a piddly USDT:USD market pair on a few exchanges, like Coinbase and Kraken, as a distract…

Oh, I understand why it hasn't collapsed already. I just don't see how Tether refusing to honor redemptions makes it more resilient to a run in progress, rather than less . If nobody wants to buy 1 USDT for a dollar, the peg will break all the same. If Tether stepped in as a buyer of last resort, that would make it more resilient- but if it doesn't, that worse for the peg, not better. It's better for anyone with phys…

Ah I see. The point I was making is that since it brazenly doesn't have backing and it openly gets to choose who is allowed to redeem, a run would be very hard to actually start. The exchanges themselves are incentivized to backstop the pegs (up to a point) out of their own capital to ensure their own survival.

Beyond that, you are correct of course!

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