Earlier quoted context omitted.
For duration of effect, at least meth might more closely match an opioid than cocaine (classic speedball). Part of the high danger of speedballs is that the stimulant (coke) wears off much faster than the depressant. Amphetamines have a longer duration of effect than cocaine, I think.
If stimulants and depressants are balancing each other out - what's the appeal in taking both? Why wouldn't you only want to take one? Or do you usually only take the other, recreationally, when you get too stimulated or depressed?
The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
341–350 of 371 posts
Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
If stimulants and depressants are balancing each other out - what's the appeal in taking both? Why wouldn't you only want to take one? Or do you usually only take the other, recreationally, when you get too stimulated or depressed?
The come down on speed is awful. The come down on high dosage Adderral is awful, you’ll be jittery and and unable to sleep. Imagine Meth or Coke now. The combination is to create the perfect drug, you speed up, hit the half life, and then instead of the awful come down, you ease in to a landing with the calmness of an Opiod that will rockabye baby you away from intense anxiety and hopefully relax you into sleep. Cert…
Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Germany, you are legally allowed to buy beer and wine at age 16. The result is that most teenagers tend to stick for lower-percentage alcohol and don't go all-in for the hard stuff.
Yes, but not in pints, and not at pubs. That's England, not Germany.
Pub is just the best English translation for 'Kneipe', and whether you drink a UK pint or half a litre of beer doesn't make too much of a difference.
Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
> peripheral stimulation but no cerebral effects What does this mean?
Sorry for the confusing terminology. "Peripheral stimulation" means unwanted stimulation of the body itself, such as suppressed appetite, general jitteriness, and the like. Whereas the cerebral effects are the actual cognitive effects of improved attention/focus/alertness/scanning behavior, euphoria, and that kind of thing. In general when taking amphetamines for ADHD-type symptoms, you want to maximize the cerebral…
As this article shows, there's any number of ways of making MA but separating out it's racemic mixtures has always been considered hard for backyard-ers.
If this is now commonplace then it does seem to represent a somewhat of a seismic shift in the illicit drugs business model.
Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
Substitute "PBR hard coffee," then. Malt liquor drink, 30mg caffeine. Tastes like Yoo-hoo.
PBR hard coffee (and similar products) are comically expensive for what they are which means the wrong people don't buy them which means the avoid the stigma.
Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other drugs already are legal. Alcohol is legal, and marijuana is effectively legal in Seattle, where people apparently do a lot of meth.
While true neither of those drugs would replace meth. Alcohol probably causes more social misconduct than meth anyway.
Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#347Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they did that, the consumption would only go up, resulting in even more overdoses. That’s what happened in Portugal, after drug decriminalization — drug consumption there went up significantly (with exception of heroin, which went down, but it also went down in other European countries at the same time which did not decriminalize it). Full on legalization will increase consumption even higher. Of course, one might…
> If they did that, the consumption would only go up, resulting in even more overdoses. I believe the former. People like taking drugs after all. But what makes you think the latter is likely? (Anecdotally, from what I can tell American teenagers seems more likely to bing drink hard spirits than German teenagers who can legally enjoy a pint at the local pub.)
Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#349From what I read, the P2P method isn't new. "Preisler, who works at an electroplating factory and has been arrested twice in the U.S. for his work with methamphetamine, says he isn't surprised traffickers have turned to P2P. "P2P is old school," he said. "Hell, I used to cook by that route circa 1980." The fight has come full circle. In the 1980s, the U.S. government severely restricted access to P2P seeking to curta…
Priesler goes by "Uncle Fester", and wrote "Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture" - he's effectively the expert on clandestine meth manufacturing. He writes some interesting, and kind of terrifying, books. https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/attach/130/130179_Secrets_of_M...
That said, I suppose in reality it's just a more in-your-face presentation of what's already in many organic chemistry textbook in any number of libraries.
Frankly, I reckon there's little that can be done to stop the illicit manufacture of these drugs for the logical reason that they're such simple molecules. Many are just minor variations on the basic d-enantiomer (dexamphetamine) which essentially is only a benzene ring with a single branch containing a CH3 methyl and a NH2 amine group. So it stands to reason that there are many comparatively simple ways to synthesize them and that more are likely to be found. Moreover, the more precursors there are, the harder it becomes to ban them all, as eventually we'll hit the point where certain precursors are too ubiquitous and or important to ban.
It seems to me that if we're to take harm minimization seriously then we need to take a more sophisticated approach. For staters, we need much more efficient public health measures to detect and separate out genuine self-medicatiors from the partygoers who take illicit drugs.
As we know, these sympathomimetic amines have been prescribed by the medical profession for decades for certain depressive illnesses, ADHD, etc., but because of their their potential for abuse - not to mention certain moralistic attitudes among many politicians - these drugs have a horrible stigma attached to them and that has stopped many undiagnosed people from being prescribed them legally. The consequence is that many of them self-medicate with illegal drugs and the outcomes are often dire.
I think that taking a serious approach to medicalizing the problem would help very significantly. This would also include distinguishing the amines from the opiates. Whilst the medical profession understands fundamental difference between these two classes of drugs, public policy often doesn't and the drug problem ends up as an amorphous mess that becomes even harder to sort out than it otherwise would have been.
Therefore, there needs to be a more nuanced and sophisticated understanding amongst the general community to the effect that someone who turns to illicit amines is likely doing so for fundamentally different reasons to another who has turned to opiates. A more sophisticated approach to the drug problem would lead to better outcomes for not only those addicted to drugs but also for society in general.
Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
People with ADHD (like myself) don’t get the same effects from amphetamines as those without it. When someone with ADHD takes adderal it just makes them focused with a little euphoria when they initially begin taking it.
Yeah, sorry kid, you aren’t fooling anyone. I won’t have the same fight over and over. As much as the world wants all of us to believe we are different, we are not: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=115537 Feel free to read through all the experiences and try your best to not lie that you are different. You have the same blood and organs like all of us, the same brain, the same nervous system. It doesn’t ‘aff…