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The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

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Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#191

Post by edgyquant »

DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #14
throwaway81523 wrote: post #8

In the article, "P2P" is an abbreviation for Phenylacetone, a precursor to meth (the drug). It's not "peer to peer" so that solved a lot of puzzling over what the headline could mean.

When I read the headline, the idea I had in my head was of some kind of crowdsourced meth production system.

I don’t think that would be a bad description of the state of meth manufacturing in the Midwest during the 2000s and early 2010s. Users would source together (one person buys the Sudafed, another the chemicals, etc) to make meth and then they would trade with each other, etc. The rise of super labs and purity levels the average meth head couldn’t achieve basically killed the peer-to-peer meth business. At least this was my experience with my addicted cousins back home (in the Midwest.)

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#192

Post by hackeraccount »

adolph wrote: post #72
kens wrote: post #64

The article mentions the ban in 2006 of over-the-counter sales of Sudafed (pseudoephedrine). One of my favorite satirical articles is "A simple and convenient synthesis of pseudoephedrine from N-methylamphetamine". (The joke being that Sudafed is now hard to purchase while meth is readily available.) https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3...

In the below podcast an author of a book about recent meth developments talks about the ban of Sudafed entirely in Mexico lead to a change in the market toward fentanyl. Author and journalist Sam Quinones talks about his book, The Least of Us, with EconTalk host Russ Roberts. Quinones focuses on the devastation caused by methamphetamine and fentanyl, the latest evolution of innovation in the supply of mind-altering d…

I heard that. Interesting discussion.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#193

Post by loeg »

crate_barre wrote: post #77
monkmartinez wrote: post #31

The reason Meth use is going up is not due to Meth itself. It counter balances the effects of Fentanyl. I regularly go to Fentanyl overdoses where the bystanders tell me they ran out of "G" or "Glass" and simply overdid it with the "M30's"... Its a fucking nightmare. It used to be "meth" users would say..."At least I am not a dope junky using H." Heroin users would say... "At least I am not a tweaker." Now they are o…

This all sounds like high octane speed-ball (used to be just mixing some basic speed with something like Vicodin, or an Adderral/Ritalin + Vicodin/Percocet), but mixing Meth/Fentanly sounds beyond risky.

For duration of effect, at least meth might more closely match an opioid than cocaine (classic speedball). Part of the high danger of speedballs is that the stimulant (coke) wears off much faster than the depressant. Amphetamines have a longer duration of effect than cocaine, I think.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#194

Post by xyzzyz »

mjevans wrote: post #180
kens wrote: post #64

The article mentions the ban in 2006 of over-the-counter sales of Sudafed (pseudoephedrine). One of my favorite satirical articles is "A simple and convenient synthesis of pseudoephedrine from N-methylamphetamine". (The joke being that Sudafed is now hard to purchase while meth is readily available.) https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3...

If only they'd legalize, tax, and regulate the meth... We could get our real cold symptom treatments back as true OTCs and stop wasting so much time chasing petty criminals. It would also help identify drug addicts and get them help before problems become bad.

If they did that, the consumption would only go up, resulting in even more overdoses. That’s what happened in Portugal, after drug decriminalization — drug consumption there went up significantly (with exception of heroin, which went down, but it also went down in other European countries at the same time which did not decriminalize it). Full on legalization will increase consumption even higher.

Of course, one might argue that it’s fine, because it’s the drug users themselves who would suffer from this. But, considering the current push to get people vaccinated against their will, for their own good, I don’t expect this argument to work for drugs either… who am I kidding, of course people should have a right to use as much drugs as they want, but should have no right to get a job if they are not vaccinated, it’s 2021 after all.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#195

Post by loves_mangoes »

mhh__ wrote: post #173
debacle wrote: post #78

I've looked into the logistics of "cooking" meth and it is a complex process that, were I not an expert, wouldn't create something I would be comfortable putting into my body. How is meth "industrially" produced? Is it Walter White-esque clandestine factories? Is it clever people in their garages? Is it done over the border?

LSD is probably even more naughty. As far as I'm aware it's not a trivial synthesis by any means, so exactly where the supply comes from is probably a fascinating story never to be fully told. Buddhist Walter White's around the world, perhaps.

With the rise of online shopping, the big suppliers are a lot more visible than they were before. I like to read stories on forums sometimes.

It turns out there are more than a couple LSD labs, some having a bigger internet presence than others.

Suppliers will not sell directly to random people, but as it turns out their approved resellers are happy to offer spoonfuls of LSD in powder form to anyone who asks!

https://imgur.com/a/r2FkJOD (not my picture)

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#196

Post by loeg »

mhh__ wrote: post #173
debacle wrote: post #78

I've looked into the logistics of "cooking" meth and it is a complex process that, were I not an expert, wouldn't create something I would be comfortable putting into my body. How is meth "industrially" produced? Is it Walter White-esque clandestine factories? Is it clever people in their garages? Is it done over the border?

LSD is probably even more naughty. As far as I'm aware it's not a trivial synthesis by any means, so exactly where the supply comes from is probably a fascinating story never to be fully told. Buddhist Walter White's around the world, perhaps.

The DEA (so, not exactly a reliable source) claims Pickard was producing most of it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#197

Post by daveguy »

xyzzyz wrote: post #194
mjevans wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only they'd legalize, tax, and regulate the meth... We could get our real cold symptom treatments back as true OTCs and stop wasting so much time chasing petty criminals. It would also help identify drug addicts and get them help before problems become bad.

If they did that, the consumption would only go up, resulting in even more overdoses. That’s what happened in Portugal, after drug decriminalization — drug consumption there went up significantly (with exception of heroin, which went down, but it also went down in other European countries at the same time which did not decriminalize it). Full on legalization will increase consumption even higher. Of course, one might…

Well, to be fair. Your drug use can't put me in the ICU.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#198

Post by suresk »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #162
Scoundreller wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FDA pressured loperamide manufacturers to stop selling large quantity bottles because people thought eating a whole bottle was a good idea. Problem: taking massive amounts of loperamide to get an opiate effect is a myth Of course, the manufacturers were all happy to fall in line anyway and dramatically raise per-tablet prices (and packaging!) Except one manufacturer. Several years ago, I bought a 200-ct bottle for US…

Tell me who needs 200-ct bottles of imodium. People who observe proper hygiene have food poisoning maybe once in 10 years (and whether a motility agent is a good idea in such cases is another question).

I have chronic gastrointestinal issues and the best "treatment" for them has been taking one every morning (on the recommendation of my GI doctor). This change has made it a lot more expensive and inconvenient to deal with.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#199

Post by kens »

gunfighthacksaw wrote: post #165
Zarathust wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada you can still buy that over the counter. You get id-ed and they keep a record of your purchases, but since it's now generic pills it is now much cheaper than it was before

I didn’t get IDed either of the times I’ve bought a box. First time was in 2019: I went to Walmart for something for my ears on flights, after some back and forth the pharmacist recommended me pseudoephedrine. Second time was in Sobeys last month (can fly again, yaaay) and I asked for it directly. The pharmacist had some trouble finding it, but sold it to me with no further issue.

Chances are that you bought the useless Sudafed PE. The (original) Sudafed is pseudoephedrine. Sudafed PE is phenylephrine. The molecules are similar, but the latter cannot be easily converted to methamphetamine so it is not regulated like the former. Sudafed is an effective nasal decongestant, while Sudafed PE is equivalent to a placebo. [1]

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19230461/

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#200

Post by rsj_hn »

daveguy wrote: post #197
xyzzyz wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they did that, the consumption would only go up, resulting in even more overdoses. That’s what happened in Portugal, after drug decriminalization — drug consumption there went up significantly (with exception of heroin, which went down, but it also went down in other European countries at the same time which did not decriminalize it). Full on legalization will increase consumption even higher. Of course, one might…

Well, to be fair. Your drug use can't put me in the ICU.

People trying to steal to get drugs could. People high on drugs certainly could. A lot of Breaking and Entering, for example, is to obtain money to feed a drug habit. For the person doing the stealing, all they care about is the cost of the drug, so plans to regulate and tax meth, well, don't necessarily improve that situation.
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