Photoshop’s journey to the web • Hacker News Board

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#91

Post by softfalcon » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

anonymousab wrote: post #32

astlouis44 wrote: post #11

WebAssembly is coming for games next. Near native performance, players can join with just a link, and no 30% cut that developers have to deal with.

You only deal with the Steam or EGS or Gog cut if you're utilizing their storefront; if you are just hosting the game on your own site, then whether that game is a webassembly package or a desktop application, you don't have to pay some gatekeeper (other than your file host). Same thing with Android, though there is a bit more friction there.

Unfortunately, choosing to not use Steam, GoG, or similar is simply out of the question.

The reality of you selling your game at a profit without the help of one of these app storefronts is improbable. Keep in mind that even if you somehow become successful in this regard, these storefronts have a vested interested in making sure you and your technologies fail.

Edit: apologies if I seem dire, I'm actually on your side and WISH that the world was a free market without all these gatekeepers. Myself, my partner, and many of my close friends constantly battle with these "gate keepers" as game devs/designers and I wish they would go away, but the market (users) love (to use) them even when they hate them.

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#92

Post by okhobb » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #19

I can see Illustrator and Photoshop running on a browser but I doubt we'll see After Effects and Premiere on WASM any time soon. IMO the solution will probably be a combination of browser based UI and cloud based processing. The drawback of this approach is that the server would need to host the project files.

There is a YC W22 company hoping to do just that: https://ozone.tech/

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#93

Post by winternett » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

orangepurple wrote: post #53

> Why Photoshop came to the web The entire section is a deception. The real reason is to strong arm everyone into a subscription model where you never own the software that runs on your computer. That's the real end game, not this nonsense about how easy it is to launch an application if its a URL in a browser.

I am still able to run my copy of CS6 without problems thank God... I had to do some tweaks to get it to run on Windows 10 though. Not upgrading to Windows 11 until I have to because I hear that is even more designed to force users into mandatory software updates by creating new incompatibility with older apps.

It's really future OS updates that threaten that.

There have been no major advancements in PhotoShop for my needs that really warrant an upgrade. No added value. I paid for CS6 long ago, and it should run properly without artificial disruptions indefinitely, because that is how it was marketed to me.

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#94

Post by thegoleffect » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #19

I can see Illustrator and Photoshop running on a browser but I doubt we'll see After Effects and Premiere on WASM any time soon. IMO the solution will probably be a combination of browser based UI and cloud based processing. The drawback of this approach is that the server would need to host the project files.

An offline-first web version of AE/Prem is what we're working on @ Vidbase. Internally, it works today better than the desktop apps imo. Others are working on similar tools as well.

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#95

Post by open-source-ux » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

detritus wrote: post #27

andai wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you not like?

The present subscription model and the prospect of where an entirely web-based equivalent will lead. Also, most of the people I know who use Creative Suite have absolutely zero need for any of the recent multi-user / social/web-based functionality. I've never in my twenty-plus years in design needed it and see a decreasing likelihood I would in future either. I appreciate that ages me and marks me as an old fogey, bu…

I'm still fond of offline desktop apps (non-expiring ones) and much prefer them over browser-based equalivents.

The debate about the browser replacing desktop applications stretches back to the early 2000s. I was sceptical the browser could complete with desktop apps back then.

Fast forward today and how wrong I was.

I used to believe design and graphics apps would never work in the browser unless extremely limited in features. But even design and graphics apps have found success in the browser (e.g. Figma, WebFlow, Canva).

Figma in particular is enjoying huge success and poses a challenge to desktop apps Sketch (Mac-only) and Adobe XD (Mac and Windows).

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#96

Post by whywhywhywhy » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

chaz6 wrote: post #13

Only Chromium/Blink browsers are supported, so no Firefox or Safari. This is bad for the web.

Apple is choosing to artificially limit the potential of web image work in Safari anyway.

> Safari 15 has a canvas memory limit of 4096 × 4096 pixels where Safari 14 could deal with resolutions up to 16384 x 16384.

https://twitter.com/rikschennink/status/1442443774748082185

I'm definitely not one to advocate web apps that only work in one browser, but Apple is certainly going out of their way to make lives harder for developers who do want to support their browser and we all know why that is.

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#97

Post by linguae » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

EvanAnderson wrote: post #49

I'm not at all looking forward the future where "conveniences" provided by operating systems (like consistent GUI styling, preferences, accessibility, etc) are thrown by the wayside and each application effectively re-implements a GUI targeting a canvas "framebuffer".

That day is already here and has been around for quite a while. Even before the proliferation of Electron applications there has been a push away from UI consistency in desktop environments. I believe the reasons are a combination of the following factors:

- Easier cross-platform support easier for developers

- "Branding" concerns

- A philosophy that the app, not the operating system, is central to the user experience; one consequence is there's a strong emphasis on having that app behave as similar as possible across platforms even when the app's behavior violates the platform's UI guidelines.

I lament the decline of the idea of a native desktop with an ecosystem of conformant applications. However, I see the economic incentives for writing cross-platform applications that emphasize consistency across platforms instead of consistency with each platform's UI standards. As long as we have app-centered desktop environments, the only way I see native applications that are conformant to that platform's UI standards being promoted is through market demand. Historically Mac users have shunned software that doesn't conform to the Mac's UI guidelines, though this may be changing in recent years thanks to the rise of Electron and Catalyst.

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#98

Post by hypertele-Xii » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

astlouis44 wrote: post #11

WebAssembly is coming for games next. Near native performance, players can join with just a link, and no 30% cut that developers have to deal with.

It's a long way from being a usable gaming interface. There's too much "convenience UI" baked into browsers that trips up gaming. Pressed the wrong button? It was a browser hotkey for history-back and you just unloaded the game. Have add-ons enabled? Whoops they are messing up the controls.

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#99

Post by mhoad » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

jon-wood wrote: post #69

orangepurple wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, layout is all CSS with some JS mixed in, and will be for a long time. Webassembly will help accelerate heavy mathematical computations such as canvas graphics.

You could hypothetically use Webassembly to build your entire application around a canvas and either render directly with canvas calls or WebGL, but it would somewhat miss the point of the web unless you're explicitly building a game or something.

Flutter also does this but has an option to fall back to regular DOM elements on lower end devices if needed.

Re: Photoshop’s journey to the web

#100

Post by PeterBarrett » Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

Someone did a really funny presentation on all apps moving to the web and then eventually OS's, followed by OS's running on OS's on the web. If anyone know's where I can find it I would really appreciate a link!

It's pretty relevant to this seeing as it does seem to be where we are going.