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The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

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Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#111

Post by aplaice »

crubier wrote: post #100
piva00 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rude? Have you considered the other side? I'm extremely fatigued by having the camera on, I feel surveilled and every movement I do in front of it is calculated by my unconscious mind. It takes a real toll on my productivity having to have the camera on for a string of meetings. I feel it's extremely rude to dismiss others' experiences with the damn camera on for a virtual meeting. What is up that you need someone el…

If other participants having a tiny 200px image of you (among 6 other people) in the corner of their screen is extremely fatiguing to you, how does it work when you go to the office ? Do you get seizures after 15min of in-person meeting ? Panic attacks ? How did you deal with life 5 years ago ? Going from mostly physical office to mostly work-from-home on zoom is already a massive change that gives a lot of comfort t…

In-person meetings are completely different.

Video conferences are as if everybody were potentially constantly staring at you, but you couldn't tell if or when this was the case, and despite everybody looking at you, you couldn't even make eye-contact with anybody, share a smile etc.

If anything, video conferences are dehumanising.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#112

Post by jsilence »

piva00 wrote: post #47
jacobmischka wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely rude in my opinion when people simply don't turn their cameras on in virtual meetings. Unfortunately, no one at my workplace except me does.

Rude? Have you considered the other side? I'm extremely fatigued by having the camera on, I feel surveilled and every movement I do in front of it is calculated by my unconscious mind. It takes a real toll on my productivity having to have the camera on for a string of meetings. I feel it's extremely rude to dismiss others' experiences with the damn camera on for a virtual meeting. What is up that you need someone el…

In my context there is the unspoken agreement that we turn cameras on when a meeting starts and after greeting and checking the agenda everyone is free to turn their camera off.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#113

Post by jsilence »

Getting older my hearing starts to degrade and in addition to that I have a slight tinnitus in the cricket sound range.

More than the camera bad audio quality it much more exhausting for me. Especially when project Partners are from other countries. Reverb, sub par microphone and a foreign accent is hard for me to compensate. Really wish everybody would invest in a decent lav mike and some acoustic treatment of hard walls.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#115

Post by theelous3 »

Lutger wrote: post #98
kodah wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some context: I'm a lead engineer on a team with six products. I keep my camera off in meetings. I'm in far more meetings than I can possibly be productive in. I'm also usually not the active speaker in meetings. Why stare into a camera when what my yearly bonuses are calculated on is work/team output? I've found most meetings I get into are either: - Developers who can't figure something out from documentation and a…

The perceived the need to keep the camera off during a meeting is a good indication there is something wrong with the meeting, not that it's a good thing to keep the camera off. We had some recurring meetings where people consistently didn't show up. The managers first impulse was to make the meeting mandatory. But the first thought should be: why are people not showing up? Engineers hate being unproductive, it shoul…

> Turning the camera off is just a socially acceptable way of not showing up.

Why do you think that someone with a camera off is not present? How can you honestly equate camera-off with absence?

> There are exceptions of course

imo it's the opposite. Rarely to never does it matter if you see my face in a meeting. It's an exceedingly rare exception that you should need to as a business requirement.

Have you considered that... _you_ just like having your camera on, and like seeing other people? And other people just don't care?

Furthermore - even if you were right, I would say it's a good thing that busy people have a socially graceful way to opt out of the organisational mistakes of others.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#116

Post by [deleted] »

djmips wrote: post #62
fareesh wrote: post #37

I don't turn on my camera for meetings. You really don't need to see my face. Anyone who says otherwise is not a serious person. We have been multitasking while on the phone for decades. This is no different.

I think it's OK to have the camera turned off for meetings but if it's a company meeting or a more social catch-up I'd like to see my co-workers. So 99% of the time no problem. But once a week or once a month I'd like to see everyone.

[deleted]

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#117

Post by ratww »

magicalhippo wrote: post #108
ratww wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My team had a discussion about that at a previous job. I also don't find cameras necessary, but me and some other people I know find that long 1-1 meetings with the camera turned off feels like a prolonged phone call, which is extremely tiring for people who also dislike long phone calls. Short camera-less meetings with quick, focused, telephone-like discussions are perfectly fine, of course. But if one of the partie…

While I also find long 1-1 meetings tiring, the camera does nothing to improve this for me regardless of who has it on. What about seeing a face makes it less tiring than not seeing a face? Is this possibly an introvert vs extrovert thing?

Well, the problem for me specifically is the "hurry up and wait" feeling.

If the person operating a computer is doing stuff related to the meeting, time seem normal for them. But the person waiting has to remain focused to answer follow-up questions, so multitasking might not be a possibility.

Seeing a face helps in my experience, but I have no idea why. However, screen sharing is probably better. Or just not having long interruptions.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#118

Post by ratww »

brailsafe wrote: post #107
ratww wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the first quote maybe. But for the second ( "I'm also responsible for delivering code and 50-75% of my day is meetings" ), not really. Technical Managers and Tech Leads need to participate in meetings but some also need/want to keep their coding skills and codebase knowledge sharp. A compromise is spending only 25%-50% of the time coding. Some people are good with both and prefer to keep doing it. There's no one-…

I think your description is sound, but only for people managers of some kind. I burnt out pretty hard trying to meet similar expectations as an IC twice though. The first I was just trying to get code written when I was constantly being dragged into bureaucratic agile planning meetings, or talking to the PM about why my thing isn't done yet, or joining an "all hands". The 2nd had very little of the former, but I was…

Yeah, it really depends on the kind of management, kind of programming and the person. It's definitely not for everyone or for every situation. But when it works it's much better than the alternative.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#119

Post by Buttons840 »

Lutger wrote: post #98
kodah wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some context: I'm a lead engineer on a team with six products. I keep my camera off in meetings. I'm in far more meetings than I can possibly be productive in. I'm also usually not the active speaker in meetings. Why stare into a camera when what my yearly bonuses are calculated on is work/team output? I've found most meetings I get into are either: - Developers who can't figure something out from documentation and a…

The perceived the need to keep the camera off during a meeting is a good indication there is something wrong with the meeting, not that it's a good thing to keep the camera off. We had some recurring meetings where people consistently didn't show up. The managers first impulse was to make the meeting mandatory. But the first thought should be: why are people not showing up? Engineers hate being unproductive, it shoul…

What's wrong with with someone turning off their camera and eating a snack while developers dive into the weeds for 15 minutes?

Sometimes it's worthwhile for someone to be there just to make one or two important decisions in an hour long meeting.

I've learned when you have a question for someone you need to say their name at the begining of the question, not the end, and give a few seconds of background - which is also a good way to ensure everyone is on the same page.

Online meetings and turning off the camera are new, let's do what we can to take advantage of the pros they offer rather than establishing a new social norm that staring into a camera for 15 minutes and saying and doing nothing is the only polite thing to do.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#120

Post by akavel »

theelous3 wrote: post #115
Lutger wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perceived the need to keep the camera off during a meeting is a good indication there is something wrong with the meeting, not that it's a good thing to keep the camera off. We had some recurring meetings where people consistently didn't show up. The managers first impulse was to make the meeting mandatory. But the first thought should be: why are people not showing up? Engineers hate being unproductive, it shoul…

> Turning the camera off is just a socially acceptable way of not showing up. Why do you think that someone with a camera off is not present? How can you honestly equate camera-off with absence? > There are exceptions of course imo it's the opposite. Rarely to never does it matter if you see my face in a meeting. It's an exceedingly rare exception that you should need to as a business requirement. Have you considered…

There's a one-way implication here, not two way, i.e.:

I_want_socially_acceptable_absence => I_join_with_camera_off

but there's no 100% certainty the other way round.

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