Whenever this comes up in always surprised by how few people know they can turn off self view in Zoom. Doing this has solved this issue for.me. I wish Zoom would make it a default behaviour as I think it would help.a lot of people feel more comfortable in calls. Constantly staring at yourself in screen is weird and offputting.
The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
101–110 of 284 posts
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this because you observe yourself on screen? I feel very uneasy looking at myself when talking, so I've figured out how to remove my tile and it's suddenly like a normal conversation. There are way less social codes you have to follow when wfh and people tend to not bother as much with enforcing them.
I constantly think about how I'm coming across, whether my hand gestures are visible in frame, if I look like I'm frowning too much, if I'm nodding big enough to be seen, if I seem like I'm not paying attention when I look away from the screen, etc etc
But is that because you have the visual feedback of yourself? As I say, I can relate and that's why I disable my own tile.
I'm being a bit encroaching here, but I'm guessing you'd have to do as much and probably more self regulation in in-person meetings. Nobody cares where your hands are, probably no one even looks at them because you're one of many tiles. Where you're looking is not interesting because nobody knows where your camera sits related to your face. I constantly look out the window while talking. Genuinely, I've had to force eye contact on bad days in in-person meetings and everyone knew, it felt as pathetic as looking at my own face and checking if my gesturing and face ist appropriate
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
I constantly think about how I'm coming across, whether my hand gestures are visible in frame, if I look like I'm frowning too much, if I'm nodding big enough to be seen, if I seem like I'm not paying attention when I look away from the screen, etc etc
But is that because you have the visual feedback of yourself? As I say, I can relate and that's why I disable my own tile. I'm being a bit encroaching here, but I'm guessing you'd have to do as much and probably more self regulation in in-person meetings. Nobody cares where your hands are, probably no one even looks at them because you're one of many tiles. Where you're looking is not interesting because nobody knows…
No, to be clear, I would have more anxiety because I wouldn't know how I'm coming across. I guess my question is, if I'm one of many tiles and no one cares where I'm looking, what's the point of having the camera on?
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rude? Have you considered the other side? I'm extremely fatigued by having the camera on, I feel surveilled and every movement I do in front of it is calculated by my unconscious mind. It takes a real toll on my productivity having to have the camera on for a string of meetings. I feel it's extremely rude to dismiss others' experiences with the damn camera on for a virtual meeting. What is up that you need someone el…
If other participants having a tiny 200px image of you (among 6 other people) in the corner of their screen is extremely fatiguing to you, how does it work when you go to the office ? Do you get seizures after 15min of in-person meeting ? Panic attacks ? How did you deal with life 5 years ago ? Going from mostly physical office to mostly work-from-home on zoom is already a massive change that gives a lot of comfort t…
I've never had a conference with images that small. They are always more than adequate to see what someone's doing.
The big difference to presence meetings is that you send your picture into the void and don't get any social cues back, or very different ones.
You're arguing against a bit of a strawman there.
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's extremely rude in my opinion when people simply don't turn their cameras on in virtual meetings. Unfortunately, no one at my workplace except me does.
Rude? Have you considered the other side? I'm extremely fatigued by having the camera on, I feel surveilled and every movement I do in front of it is calculated by my unconscious mind. It takes a real toll on my productivity having to have the camera on for a string of meetings. I feel it's extremely rude to dismiss others' experiences with the damn camera on for a virtual meeting. What is up that you need someone el…
> What is up that you need someone else to have a camera pointing to their face that you can't have with their voices?
Smiles, frowns, nods, glazed looks, puzzled looks, surprised looks, I-want-to-say-something-but-I-can't-get-a-word-in looks, zoning out, impatience, et cetera, et cetera. There's really a lot people communicate with their faces, both consciously and unconsciously.
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's extremely rude in my opinion when people simply don't turn their cameras on in virtual meetings. Unfortunately, no one at my workplace except me does.
It may depend on the context. In a small or one on one meeting, yes it is usually rude. In a meeting with more than 5-10 people where I'm not expected to be a very active participant? I think it's fine. I also expect if someone would like the camera to be on at these meetings they would be able to tell me that and I'd usually be happy to do so if requested.
In one-on-one meetings we're usually discussing some technical detail or issue, and one or both of us will be looking at an IDE, or a document, or something that is not the browser tab where the audio is coming from.
Not having a camera distracting me helps me to help the other party and give them my full concentration. This is amply reflected in the audio, just like a telephone call, and in a one-on-one call you can both just leave the mic open and have a normal conversation with all the social cues audio communication offers.
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm in far more meetings than I can possibly be productive in. > I'm also responsible for delivering code and 50-75% of my day is meetings. There's an organisational issue here.
For the first quote maybe. But for the second ( "I'm also responsible for delivering code and 50-75% of my day is meetings" ), not really. Technical Managers and Tech Leads need to participate in meetings but some also need/want to keep their coding skills and codebase knowledge sharp. A compromise is spending only 25%-50% of the time coding. Some people are good with both and prefer to keep doing it. There's no one-…
I think your description is sound, but only for people managers of some kind. I burnt out pretty hard trying to meet similar expectations as an IC twice though. The first I was just trying to get code written when I was constantly being dragged into bureaucratic agile planning meetings, or talking to the PM about why my thing isn't done yet, or joining an "all hands". The 2nd had very little of the former, but I was responsible for fixing customer reported bugs, communicating with them in a timely and asynchronous manner about those bugs, and then also delivering features. It didn't help that they put me on some incredibly mundane React project near the end, but I reached a point where I'd sit at my computer and just feel bad about the day. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in meetings all day, but I don't know that coding is what I'd want to be doing with the time in between, at least not to try and meet deadlines. To me, that'd be a recipe for deep depression.
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#108Where I work there are basically two types of meeting, one for mass participation (> 10 people) when a few are speaking and most are listening, and one for small team discussion, which tend to be focussed on screen sharing one or more person's screen. Neither of those need a camera. When meetings are 1-1, or maybe < 5, then they make sense, but I don't really feel the need for them otherwise.
My team had a discussion about that at a previous job. I also don't find cameras necessary, but me and some other people I know find that long 1-1 meetings with the camera turned off feels like a prolonged phone call, which is extremely tiring for people who also dislike long phone calls. Short camera-less meetings with quick, focused, telephone-like discussions are perfectly fine, of course. But if one of the partie…
While I also find long 1-1 meetings tiring, the camera does nothing to improve this for me regardless of who has it on.
What about seeing a face makes it less tiring than not seeing a face? Is this possibly an introvert vs extrovert thing?
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
But is that because you have the visual feedback of yourself? As I say, I can relate and that's why I disable my own tile. I'm being a bit encroaching here, but I'm guessing you'd have to do as much and probably more self regulation in in-person meetings. Nobody cares where your hands are, probably no one even looks at them because you're one of many tiles. Where you're looking is not interesting because nobody knows…
No, to be clear, I would have more anxiety because I wouldn't know how I'm coming across. I guess my question is, if I'm one of many tiles and no one cares where I'm looking, what's the point of having the camera on?
In small to medium sized groups, body and facial language helps to understand how a person feels about something. Most people like to imagine everything is completely rational but most things at work have a human component. If I feel like someone's unhappy with the work they're allocated I will ask them about it. It's like watching a movie without the image.
Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
My team had a discussion about that at a previous job. I also don't find cameras necessary, but me and some other people I know find that long 1-1 meetings with the camera turned off feels like a prolonged phone call, which is extremely tiring for people who also dislike long phone calls. Short camera-less meetings with quick, focused, telephone-like discussions are perfectly fine, of course. But if one of the partie…
While I also find long 1-1 meetings tiring, the camera does nothing to improve this for me regardless of who has it on. What about seeing a face makes it less tiring than not seeing a face? Is this possibly an introvert vs extrovert thing?
For me it's not seeing a face but also having my face seen. It's basically a kind of raised attentiveness.
But generally virtual meetings are easy but that doesn't mean they are cheap. Where in person meetings were hard you knew they were expensive and had a kind of built in value of worth. Virtual meetings are easier but the costs are more hidden.