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NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

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Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#61

Post by Azsy »

otoh wrote: post #18

On the other hand, perhaps the hardware/OS designs of iOS and Android devices are fundamentally flawed, when viewed from a security-first perspective.

This is definitely part of the problem. But the fundamental flaw is the departure from simplicity.

The solution is to have a processor that is so simple that it cant do more then what you expect, and building the tools to make the unexpected stand out.

However, there is a bigger market for a processor with 3 extra layers of root access to ensure your boss can spy on you and Disney&Co really want this to be the norm.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#62

Post by zionic »

cronix wrote: post #13
mijoharas wrote: post #3

So, what is the legality of this? I've not followed much about this at all, but NSO group appears to be an Israeli company. Do they just sell, or operate the hacking software for their clients? If they operate it, is it illegal for an Israeli company to hack an American citizen (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) Is the sale of hacking software regulated in any way?

> (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) This part doesn't matter much in practicality. Like it is illegal for the US gov't to spy on their citizens. It is illegal for the UK to spy on their citizens. So the NSA made a deal with the UK. They spy on us, we spy on them, and exchange the info. There, the US didn't break the law and neither did the UK. They worked around it. We live in a shadowy world…

> Like it is illegal for the US gov't to spy on their citizens. It is illegal for the UK to spy on their citizens. So the NSA made a deal with the UK. They spy on us, we spy on them, and exchange the info. There, the US didn't break the law and neither did the UK.

Let’s not mince words, this is officials of the United States of America conspiring with foreign hostile [0] powers to undermine the rights and security of the American public. It’s treason, and an incoming president with the stones required could arrest much of the former administration’s “intelligence community” leadership in midnight raids via the insurrection act.

[0] Foreign intelligence services are, by design, hostile powers even if they belong to an ally. The UK is an ally, but GCHQ is a hostile agency from the perspective of the United States public which these agencies supposedly serve.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#63

Post by megous »

lazide wrote: post #21
bink wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacking is a crime in both Israel and the US. If either government wanted to they could pursue charges. Selling exploits is not illegal in either country AFAIK, and is in fact a booming business.

Hacking someone in Israel is the crime right? Same as in the US it’s a crime to hack someone in the US? If the US group hacks someone in Israel and the Israeli group hacks someone in the US, then they’re fine as long as they don’t vacation in the country while someone is looking to serve them with a warrant?

Extraditions are a thing. (in general)

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#64

Post by [deleted] »

Atreiden wrote: post #45
dpratt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a political argument. If you willingly participate in the construction and deployment of technological systems that are designed to be used to monitor, suppress and ultimately threaten the physical security of people who are non-violently opposed to the current group of people in power, you have essentially declared yourself an enemy of mankind, and I choose to personally act accordingly.

Preach! This should not be misconstrued as a partisan issue. Those who desire these outcomes will make every attempt to conflate it with one political movement or another. They'll appeal to auth sensibilities and moral panics. It must be made clear that these represent efforts by the powerful to squash dissent and free society. It is an attack on the rest of humankind.

[deleted]

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#65

Post by mjsir911 »

midasuni wrote: post #44
1cvmask wrote: post #12

It would seem to be the rational thing for NSO to hack a journalist who is writing on them, so that they better prepare for what’s coming. As for all the countries that buy and use NSO, to target and kill journalists, they are all close all allies of the US and Israel. And the US and England were also spying on the journalist Julian Assange, and have kept him in prison and tortured him for over a decade. Ben Hubbard…

He was arrested in 2019 so your “over a decade” claim is demonstrably wrong. Could you point to amnesty international claiming belmarsh is torture?

I mean, it's not amnesty international, but a UN Special Rapporteur on Torture claimed:

"Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture."

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N...

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#66

Post by dredmorbius »

dpratt wrote: post #43
systemvoltage wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you hire a plumber if they worked at an ammunitions factory before?

This is not a correct analogy. There are multiple legitimate and moral usages of ammunition. A better comparison would be to ask if I would hire someone who worked for the East German Stasi, or someone who had helped to build the systems used to identify, target and kidnap dissidents in mainland China. Edit: Additionally, no, I would not hire an ammunition manufacturer who produced ammunition knowing that the entiret…

Keep in mind that one mechanism for control is to slowly suck someone into a scheme over time. I'm sure this has a name, or many names, though I'm not aware of it.

A friend had a professor at uni who'd been recruited to join a deep-sea scientific mission which was an absolutely incredible opportunity: a phenomenally well-appointed ship, newly constructed, a large scientific crew, and funding was completely assured.

He went on the project, returned home, and read much later in the paper that he'd been part of the cover mission for the recovery of the sunken Soviet submarine K-129, aboard the Glomar Explorer. According to the professor, he'd had absolutely no inkling of that mission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer

That's one method.

The one used by Saddam Hussein as he executed (so to speak) his 1979 coup was rather more direct, and is explained here by Christopher Hitchens:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=CR1X3zV6X5Y

During WWII, numerous individuals turned on their own countrymen, comrades, and fellow Jews, as Quislings, collaborators, and capos, through a mix of threats and rewards.

And of course, various paths toward corruption are seen all the time in gangs, business, government, institutions, and other contexts.

That said, I'd have a very hard time working with anyone who is still working for a Facebook, Google, Amazon, Oracle, Palantir, AT&T, Verizon, or numerous other firms in the surveillance capitalism space today.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#67

Post by eyeball »

mijoharas wrote: post #3

So, what is the legality of this? I've not followed much about this at all, but NSO group appears to be an Israeli company. Do they just sell, or operate the hacking software for their clients? If they operate it, is it illegal for an Israeli company to hack an American citizen (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) Is the sale of hacking software regulated in any way?

https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/100/

Interesting podcast on NSO group from darknet diaries.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#68

Post by dpratt »

throwawayboise wrote: post #60
dpratt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a political argument. If you willingly participate in the construction and deployment of technological systems that are designed to be used to monitor, suppress and ultimately threaten the physical security of people who are non-violently opposed to the current group of people in power, you have essentially declared yourself an enemy of mankind, and I choose to personally act accordingly.

Most of what Facebook and Google have developed could be used to do these things. In fact it has been used to do those things, perhaps with the exception of the physical threat. But monitor and suppress? Yes. Is everyone who worked on this stuff also an enemy of mankind?

While I find what Google and Facebook do personally distasteful, it would be foolish and short-sighted to assume everyone who had worked there was complicit. It’s one thing to be an employee at a giant company that does a multitude of things, one of which when misused can present a threat, and an entirely different thing to sign up to work at a place who’s product’s _intended use_ is to support tyranny.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#69

Post by lazide »

megous wrote: post #63
lazide wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacking someone in Israel is the crime right? Same as in the US it’s a crime to hack someone in the US? If the US group hacks someone in Israel and the Israeli group hacks someone in the US, then they’re fine as long as they don’t vacation in the country while someone is looking to serve them with a warrant?

Extraditions are a thing. (in general)

But also have to meet a relatively high bar internationally, and require some evidence gathering to meet that bar which is nearly impossible in the situations we are describing.

No US law enforcement is going to honor an Israeli subpeona I believe, and vice versa.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#70

Post by FridayoLeary »

xxpor wrote: post #58
White_Wolf wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this counts as spying but in UK they are allowed to monitor people to quite a large extent if I got this right. I think refusing to decrypt your device when requested is also punishable. https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance...

Yeah the whole "unwritten constitution" thing is very laughable, if we're honest. At least the US Federal gov has to pretend to care about the 4th and 5th amendments.

If were honest, the us is held together by a few pieces of paper written by a bunch of men 250 years ago that wasn't meant to last 20 years and has since become the sparring ground of lawyers who have twisted it beyond recognition no doubt.
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