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NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

citizenlab.ca

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Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#11

Post by AmericanChopper »

krisoft wrote: post #7
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the US government has historically been one of the largest customers in the zero-day market, my guess would be no.

The US government is also one of the largest customers of ICBM rockets too. And you would find that it is not an unregulated field at all. I don’t know about regulations in the field. All I know is that “US gov buys a lot of X, therefore it X is not regulated” is not a convincing argument.

The government’s ability to prevent software distribution is limited significantly by the first amendment. Selling “a tool for hacking” is fine, selling “a tool for committing crime” would be illegal, but that distinction just comes down to picking the right marketing copy. The government can however restrict the import and export of software quite broadly.

This is not legal advice, obviously.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#12

Post by 1cvmask »

It would seem to be the rational thing for NSO to hack a journalist who is writing on them, so that they better prepare for what’s coming. As for all the countries that buy and use NSO, to target and kill journalists, they are all close all allies of the US and Israel.

And the US and England were also spying on the journalist Julian Assange, and have kept him in prison and tortured him for over a decade. Ben Hubbard luckily just got hacked.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#13

Post by cronix »

mijoharas wrote: post #3

So, what is the legality of this? I've not followed much about this at all, but NSO group appears to be an Israeli company. Do they just sell, or operate the hacking software for their clients? If they operate it, is it illegal for an Israeli company to hack an American citizen (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) Is the sale of hacking software regulated in any way?

> (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?)

This part doesn't matter much in practicality. Like it is illegal for the US gov't to spy on their citizens. It is illegal for the UK to spy on their citizens. So the NSA made a deal with the UK. They spy on us, we spy on them, and exchange the info. There, the US didn't break the law and neither did the UK. They worked around it.

We live in a shadowy world.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/20/us-uk-secret-d...

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#14

Post by bink »

mijoharas wrote: post #3

So, what is the legality of this? I've not followed much about this at all, but NSO group appears to be an Israeli company. Do they just sell, or operate the hacking software for their clients? If they operate it, is it illegal for an Israeli company to hack an American citizen (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) Is the sale of hacking software regulated in any way?

Hacking is a crime in both Israel and the US. If either government wanted to they could pursue charges. Selling exploits is not illegal in either country AFAIK, and is in fact a booming business.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#15

Post by _jal »

cronix wrote: post #8
mijoharas wrote: post #3

So, what is the legality of this? I've not followed much about this at all, but NSO group appears to be an Israeli company. Do they just sell, or operate the hacking software for their clients? If they operate it, is it illegal for an Israeli company to hack an American citizen (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) Is the sale of hacking software regulated in any way?

My understanding is they sell it, after the Israeli gov't (Israeli Defense Ministry) vets the sale. It is operated by the client. NSO has claimed they do not have any info on targets by the purchaser, and has no way to find out post-sale. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/interview-with-ceo-of-nso-group...

> NSO has claimed they do not have any info on targets by the purchaser, and has no way to find out post-sale.

They've also made other claims that only make sense if they do.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210723/22444547234/nso-g...

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#16

Post by chinathrow »

1cvmask wrote: post #12

It would seem to be the rational thing for NSO to hack a journalist who is writing on them, so that they better prepare for what’s coming. As for all the countries that buy and use NSO, to target and kill journalists, they are all close all allies of the US and Israel. And the US and England were also spying on the journalist Julian Assange, and have kept him in prison and tortured him for over a decade. Ben Hubbard…

Rational? Maybe.

Ethical? No.

Legitimate? Hell no.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#17

Post by thr0wawayf00 »

krisoft wrote: post #7
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the US government has historically been one of the largest customers in the zero-day market, my guess would be no.

The US government is also one of the largest customers of ICBM rockets too. And you would find that it is not an unregulated field at all. I don’t know about regulations in the field. All I know is that “US gov buys a lot of X, therefore it X is not regulated” is not a convincing argument.

Fair play. I'm thinking more from the perspective that the lack of regulation in the space makes it much easier to acquire and hoard zero-days at a government scale, as we saw with the Vault 7 leaks. Since the government is incentivized to hoard vulnerabilities for intelligence gathering, it's hard to see them being so willing to give it up.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#20

Post by lostlogin »

krisoft wrote: post #7
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the US government has historically been one of the largest customers in the zero-day market, my guess would be no.

The US government is also one of the largest customers of ICBM rockets too. And you would find that it is not an unregulated field at all. I don’t know about regulations in the field. All I know is that “US gov buys a lot of X, therefore it X is not regulated” is not a convincing argument.

I’m not sure that regulation really applies much when you operate at that level. How many countries has the US waged war on with the combatants in both sides using US made weapons?

The scene has been set again in Afghanistan. It isn’t ICBMs but it’s not a virtuous circle when you are dealing with weaponry.

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