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Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

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Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#241

Post by kenjackson »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #209
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have to disagree here. The threat models where the security that TPM offers are mostly applicable to the enterprise and business sectors where all devices on the network/AD/VPN have to be trusted and their storage encrypted. There TPM makes perfect sense. You average consumer/home user does not benefit at all from the features of TPM since they're not subject to the same threat model. Here TPM, and also stuff of t…

To give an example harm caused by the TPM / disk encryption feature in the consumer space: A recently-deceased friend's wife contacted me about getting personal data off from her late husband's computers. I ended up being able to get nothing for her. My friend, no doubt influenced by dementia and paranoia he was feeling, changed the passwords, made no note of them, and subsequently died. The computers in question run…

This seems like a plus not a problem.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#242

Post by hutzlibu »

DeathArrow wrote: post #206
ddalex wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman was ALMOST right. The fight is not about which programs the user can run, but who controls the user data

>The fight is not about which programs the user can run, but who controls the user data But the user data is mostly in the cloud, owned by Apple, MS, Google, Amazon, Facebook. In the future we will be lucky to have apps that work offline with local data.

"In the future we will be lucky to have apps that work offline with local data. "

Are you from the past? This here is 2021. And right here, the expensive, professional apps still lets you grudgingly do it, but small/casual apps that work really offline? That became rare. Usually it is mainly server and some local cache, you better take care of, if you are in an area with bad connection.

But more and more of my peers realize, how much spotify sucks, when there is suddenly no more internet.

Well, I still have my own music collection(and my own player for it) and use spotify just for discovery. Each to his own and thank you, for the existence of open source and foss.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#244

Post by vetinari »

rightbyte wrote: post #207
schmorptron wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good to hear then! So will most computers having a TPM chip lead to easier integration of secure boot with i.e. linux distros as well?

I had to disable secure boot to get Nvidia's drivers to work. So I guess the end result might be more hardware trouble for distros, with a subsystem that tries to prevent usage of the computer when it is not happy.

You can also enroll your MOK (Machine-Owner-Key) to UEFI and then sign the nvidia driver with it.

That way, you can leave Secure Boot enabled. However, leaving the secret part of MOK on the machine and let the dkms or whatever updater of kernel modules to use it unattended kind of defeats the purpose.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#245

Post by matheusmoreira »

ddalex wrote: post #108
dTal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Dan would eventually find out about the free kernels, even entire free operating systems, that had existed around the turn of the century. But not only were they illegal, like debuggers—you could not install one if you had one, without knowing your computer's root password. And neither the FBI nor Microsoft Support would tell you that." --Richard Stallman, "The Right To Read"

Stallman was ALMOST right. The fight is not about which programs the user can run, but who controls the user data

No, Stallman was right about pretty much everything. It's impressive how far into the future he saw, much earlier than many of us, including myself. There is no computing freedom without software freedom, and there is no software freedom without hardware freedom.

Control of data is a related problem. It's absolutely relevant but it's not in any way opposed to computing freedom. In fact, they are aligned. Computing freedom helps us retain control of our data even when faced with hostile corporations.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#246

Post by cromka »

indymike wrote: post #65
Oddskar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's honestly weird to see "Telemetry" labeled as "Spyware" by a technical people that, quite frankly, should know better. Spyware is NOT the same as gathering Telemetry data. You can also just turn off Telemetry in VSCode in the settings. I think a vast majority of people on HN gather data on customer usage of the products that they build. Because it ultimately makes us able to tailor the products better for our cus…

> Spyware is NOT the same as gathering Telemetry data. Telemetry and spyware differ only in the way collected data is used.

> Telemetry and spyware differ only in the way collected data is used.

No, they first and foremost differ in the kind of data is collected. Spying is not spying if you anonymously collect information about how frequently a feature/future/option is used only.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#247

Post by kenjackson »

eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

People always say this sort of stuff, but I feel like never really ask, is there any reason why Microsoft would do this?

Desktop revenue from apps is small and will get smaller. MS gets that the web will continue to grow larger.

I just don’t believe the App Store angle. I don’t think Satya does either. The cloud runs the company now. They did this for a different reason. I just feel like people aren’t even trying to reason through what it is.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#248

Post by DeathArrow »

no_time wrote: post #148
eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

Correct. It's one thing that the general population doesn't know what a TPM is but I just can't fathom how do governments deal with the fact that their entire nation's computing is about to be run under lock and key controlled by an american company. You could make the argument that up until this point it was possible to coexist with window's BS because despite it's closed nature, it was extensively documented and ha…

>Correct. It's one thing that the general population doesn't know what a TPM is but I just can't fathom how do governments deal with the fact that their entire nation's computing is about to be run under lock and key controlled by an american company.

And the said company would oblige to help NSA getting access to some users data.

Both China and Russia demand users with sensitive information to use their own operating systems and they also build their own hardware because they don't trust the hardware.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#249

Post by shawnz »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #234
shawnz wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the scenario where your laptop is stolen and the attacker reads your data off the disk? All modern mobile devices protect against this scenario by default, but Windows devices required additional configuration to be protected. And in fact Secure Boot does protect against Grandma being infected by boot-time malware. And when has it ever been the case that it prevented you from installing Linux?

>And in fact Secure Boot does protect against Grandma being infected by boot-time malware. And how can grandma get boot time malware at Home? IIRC those were common back in the days when people were plugging in infected floppy disks or thumb drives everywhere and you'd try to boot off them. Can't remember last time I saw this type of malware in the wild as phishing and ransomware is a lot more profitable for maliciou…

> Can't remember last time I saw this type of malware in the wild.

That's exactly because widespread secure boot has made it impractical!

As for niche Linux distros, it's been mandated since the beginning that you can install your own Secure Boot keys on Microsoft certified desktop platforms.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#250

Post by vetinari »

shin_lao wrote: post #201
eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

It can be installed without a TPM chip. My computer does not have a TPM and they say it will soon be eligible for Windows 11. If you can't wait, you can do a full install using an ISO image.

You can't install W11, not even from ISO, if your computer doesn't meet all the requirements (yes, I tried).
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