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Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

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Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#81

Post by gavinray »

nmfisher wrote: post #75
gavinray wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant tweets from self: https://twitter.com/GavinRayDev/status/1446459866059612162 https://twitter.com/GavinRayDev/status/1446460168389136395 WINE and the very popular/well maintained Linux distros have gotten so good in recent years that the scenario is nearly identical to Windows + WSL2, except with the DE reversed. And WINE is never going to run entirely as smooth/easy as regular Windows, though it's pretty dam…

FWIW, I recently tried WINE/Codeweavers again after hearing everyone rave that it ran practically everything, and it was an absolute disaster. Literally 5/6 of the applications I tried didn’t run (and the sixth was Telegram, which actually already has a Linux client IIRC). I doubt it’s really an option for 99% of people who need Windows for serious work.

Damn that sounds like bad luck to be honest. Or maybe the opposite -- I got very lucky and the apps I used were almost all compatible.

Off the top of my head, I've gotten:

- Ableton Live 10

- FL Studio 20

- A lot of popular Windows games

To work without any bugs (Borderlands 3 had a bug loading an asset once)

The one program I couldn't get working with WINE was Studio One 5.

Ableton and FL Studio are multi-GB programs with dozens of .dll's, really complex -- and all I had to do was:

  wine .exe
Then click through them

So yeah it could just be a crapshoot as far as what works. Maybe it winds up that a lot of the apps you personally use/need don't run at all, which would really suck =/

But WINE sees constant improvement, including contribution from Valve who have a vested interest in Proton for running games. Not to be cliche, but it's always improving.

(I've never used the paid Codeweavers product which is supposedly better, so can't comment on that one. Maybe someone else can chime in with recent experience if they have?)

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#82

Post by ogurechny »

Keep in mind this has happened because people agreed that they can't (normally) run code not singed by someone else (Microsoft) on their own system for “security” reasons. Well, it was not security, it actually was a way to keep keys to themselves, and hold the user system as a hostage. And it has been explained many times by many people.

If you care about software freedoms, even just a tiny bit, you wouldn't touch “Microsoft open source”, and you wouldn't be happy about your friends using any of it, like you wouldn't be happy about seeing them with a heroin syringe. That is going to explode spectacularly one day.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#83

Post by TonyTrapp »

beebmam wrote: post #21

Didn't Process Explorer start as a third party tool which Microsoft acquired?

If you follow the ProcessExplorer link it becomes clear that there's a typo, they are talking about TaskExplorer, an open-source clone of ProcessExplorer.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#84

Post by timellis-smith »

nicolas_t wrote: post #69
gavinray wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. Switched from 10 years of Debian-based linux (mostly Ubuntu, recently Pop_OS) to Windows because of some MIDI driver thing I could not get to install in WINE. I have had a significantly less pleasant time on both Win10 and Win11, and it's slow as hell. Ubuntu/Ubuntu-derivatives with Regolith as a DE + Tiling WM is the best computing experience I've ever had (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OS…

> (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OSx is better than Linux by people who have used both for long time.) As someone who used both for a long time, I would agree 2-3 years ago, now though I'd say I prefer Linux. I do really love the new m1 macs in term of temperature control and performance though. The advantage of Linux is that when it doesn't work it's much easier to diagnose and fix by yourself, t…

I'm due for an upgrade of laptop at work and have an option of Mac Pro and XPS running Linux. Despite all the goodness of the M1, I still think I prefer working in a Linux environment to Mac (probably going to choose pop os for its tiling)

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#85

Post by orionblastar »

gavinray wrote: post #50
pjmlp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it will be built on top of WSL3 and all hackers will jump of joy with Windows/Linux.

Relevant tweets from self: https://twitter.com/GavinRayDev/status/1446459866059612162 https://twitter.com/GavinRayDev/status/1446460168389136395 WINE and the very popular/well maintained Linux distros have gotten so good in recent years that the scenario is nearly identical to Windows + WSL2, except with the DE reversed. And WINE is never going to run entirely as smooth/easy as regular Windows, though it's pretty dam…

ReactOS runs on old PCs that couldn't run Windows 2000 and up. It only requires 48M of RAM to install. They are getting closer to a beta build. I use the alpha builds in Virtual Box, along with HaikuOS, AROS, and Linux.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#86

Post by timellis-smith »

gavinray wrote: post #45
intricatedetail wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that could end Windows.

Bingo. Switched from 10 years of Debian-based linux (mostly Ubuntu, recently Pop_OS) to Windows because of some MIDI driver thing I could not get to install in WINE. I have had a significantly less pleasant time on both Win10 and Win11, and it's slow as hell. Ubuntu/Ubuntu-derivatives with Regolith as a DE + Tiling WM is the best computing experience I've ever had (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OS…

I have a core i5 mini computer which I spin up every couple of months and it always amazes me that for the first 20 minutes or so the CPU runs at 100% while windows checks for updates (obviously this wouldn't happen if I ran it daily, but still Linux never does this)

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#87

Post by rnd0 »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #64
im3w1l wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People weren't distracted by the friendly Microsoft front. People were distracted by all the other companies being even worse.

Yes they were and they are. You can see it regularly on HN, saying that today's Microsoft has nothing to do with the ugly beast from the 90s, the times have changed, they are now a completely different company, they contribute to Open Source and even Linux, and they can now be trusted because they built the best code editor in the world. I don't know if people actually are that naive or if it's a part of Microsoft's…

It's a little of column "a" and a little of column "b" and also because there's a whole generation which has come and gone since the Halloween Papers and the general MS fuckery of the 90's.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#88

Post by orionblastar »

nix23 wrote: post #42
elmo2you wrote: post #41

Monopoly abuse by any other name is still just that. Microsoft never did change, nor will it, no mater how many they manage to fool, manipulate or bribe. It remains a criminal enterprise that should be cut down. But that will never happen, as long as the government(s) controlling this company are made of the same DNA. Good luck to those who have the luxury of a choice to avoid this company (and similar ones). Even mo…

Yeah funny times we life in, from Oracle you get a free enterprise linux, from Microsoft a opensoured MSDOS 1.0 ;) Edit: Correction, MSDOS 1.25 and 2.0 was released too

Microsoft released their own Linux: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-released-cbl-mar...

As far as opensource DOS, nothing beats FreeDOS: https://www.freedos.org/

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#89

Post by Arisaka1 »

eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

I saw the writing on the wall the moment they could sloppily justify the TPM requirement.

Then I got into arguments with people proclaiming that it's just Microsoft enforcing it for the casual user's safety, and that I'm a Microsoft hater. Who? Me, whose first programming language was C#, who worked as an Windows server administrator for years, and my operating systems have been nothing than Windows for 2 decades. And I'm suddenly a hater for daring to raise an eyebrow and question their design motivation?

I'm very convinced that the desktop world is at its worse. You have the commonly owned yet absurdly powerful tool known as a desktop computer have its market dominated by a single company, with no competitors whatsoever. Even worse, Microsoft's deal with hardware vendors ensure that even if a competitor were to rise they'll have to earn their favor as well. The game is lost for any competitor before it even starts.

And with the PC dominance under their thumb they test the waters to see with how much they can get away with, an approach they cannot even afford to consider when it comes to their other products like Azure or even the C# programming language. They also did their best to make Visual Studio Code great, until you realize that this also follows the same pattern.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#90

Post by sgblp »

eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

We notice the Microsoft front. Microsoft has marched through the "open" source institutions and employs a sufficient number of OSS people.

In Python, Microsoft employees (who don't develop much ...) have two seats in the Steering Council and GvR, who still seems to pull strings.

Opposition on the mailing lists is shut down ruthlessly and is censored. The new "JIT" project has all the hallmarks of NIH and will end in minor insignificant speedups. The C# guys will be amused.

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