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Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

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Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#61

Post by gavinray »

pjmlp wrote: post #54
intricatedetail wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that could end Windows.

Ironically I have been using Linux via VMWare for about 10 years now, because I got fed up with Year of Linux Desktop, which to this day still doesn't provide a proper experience to anyone that cares about graphics programming and usable UI/UX tooling. When my Asus Netbook dies (1215B with XUbuntu), the next UNIX travel laptop will be an Air. So you can spare the talk about how much GNU/Linux has progressed, since I…

  > "which to this day still doesn't provide a proper experience to anyone that cares about graphics programming and usable UI/UX tooling."
Genuinely curious what doesn't work in IE Ubuntu 21.04 for you?

Not one of those raving Linux zealots (don't really care that much about privacy), I've just had positive experiences on Linux -- not using it masochistically for ethical reasons, but because it worked very well for me.

So I would be interested in hearing the other side of the coin, since you've been around the block a time or two.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#62

Post by pmontra »

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #2

An immensly powerful and useful tool. Can't live without it. Hopefully the situation resolves soon. What is it with MS these past few months? It's like they're trying to throw away the little community goodwill they managed to build up over the years.

Trusting a company with the history of Microsoft (and its size) is at least naive. Not one of the mistakes I did in my life.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#63

Post by broodbucket »

pjmlp wrote: post #54
intricatedetail wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that could end Windows.

Ironically I have been using Linux via VMWare for about 10 years now, because I got fed up with Year of Linux Desktop, which to this day still doesn't provide a proper experience to anyone that cares about graphics programming and usable UI/UX tooling. When my Asus Netbook dies (1215B with XUbuntu), the next UNIX travel laptop will be an Air. So you can spare the talk about how much GNU/Linux has progressed, since I…

Have you ever considered that there's a huge amount of users that don't care about "graphics programming and usable UI/UX tooling"? Maybe Linux on the desktop doesn't suit your individual needs, but you seem awfully combative about it on the basis of your specific niche.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#64

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

im3w1l wrote: post #43
eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

People weren't distracted by the friendly Microsoft front. People were distracted by all the other companies being even worse.

Yes they were and they are. You can see it regularly on HN, saying that today's Microsoft has nothing to do with the ugly beast from the 90s, the times have changed, they are now a completely different company, they contribute to Open Source and even Linux, and they can now be trusted because they built the best code editor in the world. I don't know if people actually are that naive or if it's a part of Microsoft's intensive efforts to game HN.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#65

Post by indymike »

Oddskar wrote: post #58
Gargyle wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did they actually do nice things? VSCode is still not entirely open source and the official builds have spyware included.

It's honestly weird to see "Telemetry" labeled as "Spyware" by a technical people that, quite frankly, should know better. Spyware is NOT the same as gathering Telemetry data. You can also just turn off Telemetry in VSCode in the settings. I think a vast majority of people on HN gather data on customer usage of the products that they build. Because it ultimately makes us able to tailor the products better for our cus…

> Spyware is NOT the same as gathering Telemetry data.

Telemetry and spyware differ only in the way collected data is used.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#66

Post by hvdijk »

zahllos wrote: post #23

The article mentions Process Explorer. Since Sysinternals were bought by Microsoft many years ago and the tools are distributed directly via Microsoft, such tools are unlikely to have an issue being signed. A brief history of the process for those not following it. Originally for kernel-mode drivers, you needed a code signing certificate cross signed by Microsoft's root . This means that the certificate follows a cha…

> Microsoft have their keys in the default keychain because they bothered to be involved in the process, unlike linux companies like Redhat.

The status quo was that systems could boot any operating system the user wanted. Microsoft tried to force OEMs to lock operating systems other than those on a very short list (they tried to force Secure Boot to be enabled with no way for users to turn it off, and you can confirm this by checking out earlier versions of the UEFI spec), knowing very well that that list would always include Windows for pretty much every computer out there, but you try to spin this as it somehow being every other vendor's fault for not getting in on that list with each and every manufacturer?

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#67

Post by huhtenberg »

intricatedetail wrote: post #35
pjmlp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it will be built on top of WSL3 and all hackers will jump of joy with Windows/Linux.

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that could end Windows.

It obviously won't end Windows. Not will actually make any sizeable dent in Windows marketshare. That's a pipe dream.

Vast majority of people use Windows because it comes preinstalled. And it comes preinstalled for business reasons that are very hard to counter or reverse.

The only way to weaken Windows is through legislative measures and that ain't likely to happen.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#68

Post by heavyset_go »

eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

> ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip?

> Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS.

Stallman[1] and others[2] talked about exactly this 15+ years ago.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html

[2] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#69

Post by nicolas_t »

gavinray wrote: post #45
intricatedetail wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that could end Windows.

Bingo. Switched from 10 years of Debian-based linux (mostly Ubuntu, recently Pop_OS) to Windows because of some MIDI driver thing I could not get to install in WINE. I have had a significantly less pleasant time on both Win10 and Win11, and it's slow as hell. Ubuntu/Ubuntu-derivatives with Regolith as a DE + Tiling WM is the best computing experience I've ever had (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OS…

> (Disclaimer: Have never used a Mac. Have been told OSx is better than Linux by people who have used both for long time.)

As someone who used both for a long time, I would agree 2-3 years ago, now though I'd say I prefer Linux. I do really love the new m1 macs in term of temperature control and performance though.

The advantage of Linux is that when it doesn't work it's much easier to diagnose and fix by yourself, that didn't use to be a problem on macs because Apple's QA was much better and they were pretty stable (if you skipped the first 3-4 months of a new OS release) but nowadays, it's a lot less stable, my mac cannot even go to deep sleep properly (which ironically used to be a major pain on linux) and it's just a black box that's hard to diagnose but doesn't work well enough to justify it being a black box. And for the mac, I used to use things like SIMBL to modify the system exactly how I liked it but all of that has been slowly removed by Apple. Now I just want the flexibility of Linux.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#70

Post by can16358p »

nix23 wrote: post #30
eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

It's absolutely fascinating that an open OS like windows (not open as opensource, but open to run every program) takes that route. Microsoft really thinks they can compete with platforms like android or iOS, i have to say: Thank you Microsoft!! You accelerate the downfall of Windows! No one will need you in the future, Adobe on M1(Apple), Development on Linux, Gaming on Linux, Workstations Linux maybe some Apple.

Yeah my thoughts!

But on the other hand people also use Windows because its the default that comes with their new computer. (Not talking about HN community, talking about regular Joe) As long as Microsoft keeps lobbying OEMs to include Windows and there's no good alternative (looking at you, non-tech-savvy user-friendly Linux distros and major software vendors like Adobe, Autodesk etc, they will only keep locked to using Windows.

I'd love to see an alternative world where everything has an equivalent open-source software that people can switch to, but let's get facts right, many open-source software is inferior to their counterparts (especially on the design/photography world against Adobe).

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