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Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

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Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#331

Post by tw600040 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #325
Dudeman112 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we don't. But then I live in a place where gun control is a thing and has 6 times less homicides than the USA after adjusting for population, so there's that. The popo are mostly unarmed and I'd rather things kept that way.

I guess I wasn't clear enough with my comment. I was talking about US citizens. We have exactly the police we vote for, every single election. Yes, there are loud people online who wish it wasn't so, but when people get into the privacy of the ballot box they reliably vote for "law & order".

No one is complaining against "law & order". The whole thread is about police misuse of power. You really don't see the difference?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#332

Post by II2II »

Ansil849 wrote: post #233

Here's the thing: you can have all sorts of detached, academic discussions on a forum like HN or on a blogpost about what the best thing to do is, or the most pragmatic thing, or the worst thing when dealing with a police encounter. But if you ever find yourself in a situation where a police officer is pointing a gun at you, none of this discussion matters. I've had that happen to me (when an AirBNB owner failed to m…

A police officer compels you to turn over a password at gunpoint. You do so in an act of self preservation. Will any evidence acquired as a result be admissable in court?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#333

Post by andrei_says_ »

rootusrootus wrote: post #325
Dudeman112 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we don't. But then I live in a place where gun control is a thing and has 6 times less homicides than the USA after adjusting for population, so there's that. The popo are mostly unarmed and I'd rather things kept that way.

I guess I wasn't clear enough with my comment. I was talking about US citizens. We have exactly the police we vote for, every single election. Yes, there are loud people online who wish it wasn't so, but when people get into the privacy of the ballot box they reliably vote for "law & order".

I don’t remember voting on laws related to police immunity or them carrying weapons or anything allowing them to act as if they have a permission to kill.

Could you provide some examples of anything on the ballot that influenced police behavior?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#334

Post by SavantIdiot »

gwbas1c wrote: post #52
LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

I think an easier approach is not to do anything incriminating on your phone.

Hello privilege.

"Incriminating" is whatever the man with the badge decides it is at that time. If you're aren't the right color, sex, orientation, or religion, you could be doing something considered incriminating by cops and courts in most of the US. It is a very red, conservative place outside of the cities.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#335

Post by goodcanadian »

bb611 wrote: post #209
goodcanadian wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally speaking, I don't think they can compel self-incriminating testimony simply by giving you immunity. They can certainly encourage it by offering immunity in exchange, but that is not the same as compelling it.

They can: https://freemanlaw.com/immunity/ If you invoke your Fifth Amendment right not to self-incriminate you can be served with Statutory Immunity and then forced to testify, with contempt charges if you fail to testify. There are also several different types of voluntary immunity, which is what you're describing. Those can't be compelled because they may not prevent the government from using your testimony agains…

Hmmm . . . that is the first I have heard of it. It appears that Kastigar v. United States[1] may be the relevant case law. I think it a stretch to imply that it derives from the 5th amendment, however, as the grandparent seemed to do. It seems more a determination that the practice does not violate the 5th amendment.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kastigar_v._United_States

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#336

Post by quacked »

genericuser314 wrote: post #185
sethammons wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> political persuasion and education level Sorry, I'm not following. My understanding is that the job attracts bullies and I see bullies from all political persuasions and all education levels.

Based on political contributions, police officers have donated their money to Democrats and Republicans almost in equal proportion for quite awhile... until 2018, when they became overwhelmingly Republican. https://archive.md/bacrC#selection-1400.0-1404.0

What about based on internal beliefs and voting patterns? A "police" administrator at the city level is liable to donate a lot more money than a rural patrolman.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#337

Post by andrei_says_ »

kingcharles wrote: post #264

This happened to me. The police wanted my password and refused my right to silence, wouldn't let me call a lawyer. I wouldn't talk. Then they threatened my wife and I gave up my password to stop them from hurting her. The password was suppressed by the court, but they let the police use it anyway because one of the officers (with no formal computer qualifications) testified he could have broken 2048-bit AES encryptio…

> Biometrics are not protected by the 5th Amendment in the USA as the police can legally force your finger onto a touchpad or hold your face in front of a camera.

Where can I read about this distinction?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#338

Post by tyler569 »

pdimitar wrote: post #125
thehappypm wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is and it isn't, there are circumstances where the best outcome is to be helpful and compliant, and other circumstances where you'll want to protect yourself from search.

Absolutely, if I travel with a company laptop and I am asked to unlock it I'll outright refuse and cite that I can and will be sued by my employer if I unlock it, and will direct the airport security to my employer's legal team. I don't want to open myself up for litigation so I'll definitely put up a fight in this case.

Interesting that your employer would be so zealous about it, my employer's written policy is "Always cooperate with security/customs. If they want your computer unlocked, unlock it. Your safety is more important than our secrets, just call corporate security when you're released."

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#339

Post by quacked »

goodpoint wrote: post #253
sethammons wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> political persuasion and education level Sorry, I'm not following. My understanding is that the job attracts bullies and I see bullies from all political persuasions and all education levels.

> I see bullies from all political persuasions Absolutely not in equal amounts. The far right loves to infiltrate police forces while the far left is often very untrusting of the police.

I think the commenter you're responding to was just mistaking my assertion that most bad cops match a particular demographic due to the type of person to become a cop for an assertion that you can tell someone will be a bully if you know what their demographics are.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#340

Post by [deleted] »

gwbas1c wrote: post #52
LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

I think an easier approach is not to do anything incriminating on your phone.

[deleted]
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