Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#31

Post by dx034 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

FredPret wrote: post #12

brabel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Are you serious? I’m no social conservative, but labelling that as Nazism just degrades your own political capital. People are allowed to expect immigrants to fit in.

But it's not just about immigrants. You also forbid people born in your country to develop other habits or change religion.

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#32

Post by josh_fyi » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

N0tAThr0wAway wrote: post #8

wongarsu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you strife for integration you have long discussions in your society how to weigh opposing interests. I'm not sure what reasonable alternatives exist.

>I'm not sure what reasonable alternatives exist. Not import backwards, stone age cultures into your country.

Jews have lived in Europe for 2000 years. Who's importing whom? https://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com/what-disraeli-actua... "In the course of his unrestrained invective, he referred to Disraeli’s Jewish ancestry. Disraeli replied, ‘Yes, I am a Jew, and while the ancestors of the right honorable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.'”

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#33

Post by dx034 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

birdyrooster wrote: post #11

You can outlaw it but they will still just do it anyways but with more stealth. Religion is damn stupid but we have bigger fish to fry I think for workers and health of humans.

Illegal behavior is no excuse not to act. Many things are done illegally, it doesn't mean they should just be legalized. Outlawing these practices will inevitably lead to a decline in its use, just not by 100%.

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#34

Post by ajsnigrutin » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

chuckee wrote: post #7

I find the appeal to religious freedom contemptible. An animal does not suffer any less if it has to be conscious during its slaughter for religious reasons, rather than secular ones.

I'm not sure if they do it the same way everywhere, but at the only (industrial) slaughterhouse i've ever been at, they use a special kind of gun on the head of the animal, which basically destroys the brain, before they actually slaughter the animal. Compared to traditional methods (cutting the throat of a conscious animal), this seems a better solution.

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#35

Post by dx034 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

N0tAThr0wAway wrote: post #8

wongarsu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you strife for integration you have long discussions in your society how to weigh opposing interests. I'm not sure what reasonable alternatives exist.

>I'm not sure what reasonable alternatives exist. Not import backwards, stone age cultures into your country.

Not every muslim was born outside of Europe. In open societies, people also change religions even if their home country was dominated by a different one.

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#36

Post by vadfa » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #23

vadfa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former obviously. The latter are the ones who want to restrict the freedoms of others.

The latter would argue that the former are violating the animal's right to a pain-free death.

Animals are... animals.

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#37

Post by adwn » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

llimos wrote: post #10

brabel wrote: post #6

Why would a religion dictate how you should kill animals, and why do people believe this is a religious matter rather than an animal-rights matter? I just can't understand people sometimes.

Chesterton's fence probably applies here.

"Chesterton's fence" doesn't mean that you should never change or abandon an existing tradition. It means that you shouldn't do that until you understand why the "fence" was put up in the first place.

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#38

Post by ardit33 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

rjtavares wrote: post #19

vadfa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Striving for keeping the homogeneous culture that has existed for centuries and ejecting those who do not accept it is a reasonable alternative.

Honest question: has any empire (or powerful nation) ever been homogenous without genocide?

Japan? Their natives were few in numbers (less than 2%), so it can be considered a Homogenous nation.

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#39

Post by Zababa » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

josh_fyi wrote: post #32

N0tAThr0wAway wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not sure what reasonable alternatives exist. Not import backwards, stone age cultures into your country.

Jews have lived in Europe for 2000 years. Who's importing whom? https://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com/what-disraeli-actua... "In the course of his unrestrained invective, he referred to Disraeli’s Jewish ancestry. Disraeli replied, ‘Yes, I am a Jew, and while the ancestors of the right honorable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.'”

I don't think we should apply the same standards to Jews that have been in Europe for a long time, and Muslims that are a very recent addition, especially when you compare the numbers.

Re: Europe is in a muddle over ritual slaughter

#40

Post by FDSGSG » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

birdyrooster wrote: post #11

You can outlaw it but they will still just do it anyways but with more stealth. Religion is damn stupid but we have bigger fish to fry I think for workers and health of humans.

So what? The scale will be slashed. If you ban the sales of such meat, the business will be in a really tough spot.