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BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

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Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#101

Post by sudosysgen »

chrisco255 wrote: post #93
CamperBob2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some striking parallels between China and Japan, not so many between China and Holocaust victims. In the 1940s, great industrialized nations vied with each other to see who could commit the biggest atrocities on the other guys. Japan lost out, but once set straight, they began an impressive multi-decade recovery. In the 1950s, Japan's own considerable efforts, along with help from their former enemies, star…

It's okay to prefer American made products without bringing some kinda racial implication into it. The whole "buy local" movement is simply an extension of this. It's okay to prefer to trade with your local economy. While we've never been at war with China, it's not infeasible given their attitude towards Taiwan. And there's very real trade-offs with convenience of importing everything vs. the resiliency of having yo…

The US has been at war with China in Korea, actually.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#102

Post by AYBABTME »

danans wrote: post #8
sudosysgen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…

Adding to this info - LiFePO4 batteries are far more chemically stable and therefore need no cooling system. I have LiFePO4 home backup batteries and they are completely passively cooled.

Advice on legitimately adding this to your house in a DIY manner? Or is it the kind of stuff you 100% need to hire licensed folks for legal reasons? I built offgrid systems for boats but now I'm considering doing my house.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#103

Post by bagels »

drannex wrote: post #62
leesec wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol you people always come out of the wood work. They are supply constrained, they are not lying about their product line. FSD being the only maybe but I genuinely think they think they can make it work.

It has been 700 days since Tesla & Co debuted the Cybertruck and took pre-orders, with no new tangible updates. It has been 1,435 days since Tesla & Co took pre-orders charging a $50,000 deposit to pre-order the roadster. It has been 1,435 days since Tesla & Co announced the Tesla Semi, with no new tangible updates since 2017. They have legally filed that their system is, and will be for the long foreseeable future,…

They would make so much money with a model 2 that they might be able to justify their valuation. I find it hard to believe that they won't eventually build it. Obviously not going to happen until factories are not at capacity with higher margin cars, but it seems likely to eventually happen.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#104

Post by grayhatter »

m0zg wrote: post #96
jacquesm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victron is bullet proof. I've seen their inverters used aboard working vessels for decade after decade without so much as a glitch. Highly recommended.

Looked them up and for LiFePo4 batteries they seem to charge several times the eBay prices. What could they possibly be offering at that premium, given that it's almost certain they don't make the batteries themselves?

They're already top balanced grade A cells versus grade B cells. They're also the cells used in industrial mining, so they're able to tolerate vibration and movement.

> Why buy something that might explode from a trustworthy business, when it's cheaper out the back of some dudes car.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#105

Post by fspeech »

LgWoodenBadger wrote: post #95
danans wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this info - LiFePO4 batteries are far more chemically stable and therefore need no cooling system. I have LiFePO4 home backup batteries and they are completely passively cooled.

Weren’t LiFePO4 the batteries that need to be charged in fireproof bags because they have a tendency to spontaneously combust? Those were the horror stories I read about back when I had some for my Walkera rc helicopter.

Wang Chuan-Fu, BYD's CEO, drinks battery fluid to prove a point https://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/14/wang-chuan-fu-byds-ceo-d...

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#106

Post by jacquesm »

sudosysgen wrote: post #7
r00fus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iron based batteries also remove cobalt and nickel requirements, making them less environmental and politically difficult. Anything to make EVs more mainstream has my interest.

Absolutely, it's a big part of why they're cheaper. I just wish I could actually get them for reasonable prices in smaller quantities. I have to pay a 3-5x premium for LiFePO4 batteries. I'd love some at a reasonable premium for my ebike :)

Some pretty good deals here:

https://www.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/chemie/lifepo4.html

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#107

Post by jacquesm »

dylan604 wrote: post #70
sudosysgen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, it's a big part of why they're cheaper. I just wish I could actually get them for reasonable prices in smaller quantities. I have to pay a 3-5x premium for LiFePO4 batteries. I'd love some at a reasonable premium for my ebike :)

eBike batteries are as unique as all of the power tool ones so that they are all different. what's your approach to housing and connecting your DIY battery for your make/model? i just recently became an eBike owner as well, and a second battery pack is 1/3 the price of the bike.

What drivetrain does your bike have? I have a ton of documentation on the Bosch system.

And I'm working on an extended range pack (2000 Wh, the bike is a speed pedelec doing 30 mph).

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#108

Post by jacquesm »

sudosysgen wrote: post #61
elihu wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge I don't think that's quite true. LFP cells have a minimum voltage; they may survive being discharged to zero, but it probably isn't a good idea for long-term longevity. (I'm currently working on an EV conversion that uses LFP cells, but I haven't actually done durability testing or anything like that, I'm just going by what…

That's not quite what 100% discharge usually refers. 100% discharge means from the maximum charge voltage to the minimum discharge voltage. That corresponds to, normally, using up the rated capacity of the cell. On lithium batteries you'd normally only use 80% of the rated capacity if you want to maintain durability.

Exactly, depending on the make/model that's either 3.0V, 2.8V or 2.5V lowest discharge limit. If you go under that you basically can not longer trust the cell integrity and should dispose of it (no matter what miracle workers on the web say, the copper in the cell will have gone into solution and it can be deposited anywhere at all, but never again in the same spot where it was supposed to be so you are essentially the proud owner of an incendiary with a random length fuse...).

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#109

Post by jacquesm »

cbo100 wrote: post #63
caf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CATL LFP batteries Tesla has been using already have only gone in the SR+ model, because they couldn't fit enough for the necessary range in the LR and P models, so in practice they do seem to use more space. As far as I know they're not prismatic, they're using the same form factor as the NCA and NMC cells in those models.

The CATL LFP are prismatic. https://insideevs.com/news/542064/tesla-model3-lfp-battery-p...

That saves a ton of space, and if these don't have any cooling/heating requirements that savings will translate into a more compact pack which may offset some of the losses from the reduced density, as well as weight savings for coolant, coolant loops and pump.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#110

Post by jacquesm »

m0zg wrote: post #96
jacquesm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victron is bullet proof. I've seen their inverters used aboard working vessels for decade after decade without so much as a glitch. Highly recommended.

Looked them up and for LiFePo4 batteries they seem to charge several times the eBay prices. What could they possibly be offering at that premium, given that it's almost certain they don't make the batteries themselves?

Victron isn't exactly a bargain basement supplier, the people that buy their stuff depend on it for their lives. Their quality control, spares supplies and longevity are second to none, that goes for chargers, inverters and battery systems. If you're not worried about having power, having your inverter fail when you need it most, have your batteries in an outdoor enclosure of their own then you can skimp on all of this, probably cheapest option would then be to use reclaimed batteries and some cheap Chinese sine wave (for some definition of sine wave, most of them are 4 bit modified square wave that are run through a large transformer to smooth out the curve) inverter. That way you get a lot of bang for your buck, and even if the inverter ever dies you can just get a new one.

But when you are putting together a system that simply needs to work and that outputs clean power then you have very few companies that are that well supported. I've used Xantrex, Sunpower, Victron, ABB and a bunch of noname stuff. I'm sure there are plenty of others. The only one that comes close in design quality is ABB, Xantrex used to be good but it has gone down tremendously in the last decade and a half, the remainder I will never use again.

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