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BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

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Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#61

Post by sudosysgen »

elihu wrote: post #44
sudosysgen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…

> This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge I don't think that's quite true. LFP cells have a minimum voltage; they may survive being discharged to zero, but it probably isn't a good idea for long-term longevity. (I'm currently working on an EV conversion that uses LFP cells, but I haven't actually done durability testing or anything like that, I'm just going by what…

That's not quite what 100% discharge usually refers. 100% discharge means from the maximum charge voltage to the minimum discharge voltage. That corresponds to, normally, using up the rated capacity of the cell.

On lithium batteries you'd normally only use 80% of the rated capacity if you want to maintain durability.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#62

Post by drannex »

leesec wrote: post #52
adfrhgeaq5hy wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battery swap stations were a scam to get subsidies. They aren't any more real than the Cybertruck, Model 2, Roadster, solar roofs, semi, or Full Self Driving.

Lol you people always come out of the wood work. They are supply constrained, they are not lying about their product line. FSD being the only maybe but I genuinely think they think they can make it work.

It has been 700 days since Tesla & Co debuted the Cybertruck and took pre-orders, with no new tangible updates.

It has been 1,435 days since Tesla & Co took pre-orders charging a $50,000 deposit to pre-order the roadster.

It has been 1,435 days since Tesla & Co announced the Tesla Semi, with no new tangible updates since 2017.

They have legally filed that their system is, and will be for the long foreseeable future, level 2 autonomy, far from "full self driving" of L5 autonony that they advertise and actively market to unknowing consumers.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#63

Post by cbo100 »

caf wrote: post #13
sudosysgen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…

The CATL LFP batteries Tesla has been using already have only gone in the SR+ model, because they couldn't fit enough for the necessary range in the LR and P models, so in practice they do seem to use more space. As far as I know they're not prismatic, they're using the same form factor as the NCA and NMC cells in those models.

The CATL LFP are prismatic.

https://insideevs.com/news/542064/tesla-model3-lfp-battery-p...

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#64

Post by balia »

DavidPiper wrote: post #38
CamperBob2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That interpretation might be a bit inflammatory. But at a minimum, it's certainly the new "fyi this is a JAPANESE business." How'd that work out for the generation of manufacturers that used it as a veiled insult?

As a young(ish) person, I've definitely heard "fyi this is a CHINESE business", but haven't really heard "fyi this is a JEWISH business" or "fyi this is a JAPANESE business". Are there communicable/generalised messages or stereotypes people are trying to invoke with this sort of thing, or have they always just been intended as slander?

Because it’s no longer socially acceptable. You should look up the history of dogwhistles about Jewish ownership of banks and financial firms. It usually seems harmless, ex: “hey isn’t this owned by a Jewish person?” which masquerades the deep antisemitistic insinuation that Jews are taking over banking and media

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#65

Post by CamperBob2 »

bsder wrote: post #60
tuatoru wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to "Jewish", but I can to "Japanese". It relates to Japan's industrial rise after WWII. In the 1950s, "Japanese" was synonymous with "shoddy and cheap". The stereotypical import from Japan was an HB pencil. In the 1980s, "Japanese" became synonymous with "cheap and reliable" -- think Toyota vs General Motors. American manufacturers responded with racism rather than fixing their problems. There was hyste…

> There was hysteria in the mainstream media that Japan was going to overtake the US to become the biggest economy in the world. People who see the world in zero-sum terms made idiots of themselves.* To be fair, the Japanese, through MITI subsidies, slaughtered the US semiconductor industry through the early 80s. It took a lot of US government funding through VHSIC and the VLSI Project to prevent semiconductors from…

It took a lot of US government funding through VHSIC and the VLSI Project to prevent semiconductors from collapsing completely.

What are some specific examples? I don't remember anything like that happening. Japan had Hitachi and Matsushita and Toshiba, but we had Motorola and Intel and NatSemi and TI and countless other dominant players. There was plenty of room in the market for both.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#66

Post by oses »

tuatoru wrote: post #57
grecy wrote: post #31

Elon has said multiple times Tesla will buy all the batteries from all the suppliers they possibly can AND make their own as fast as possible AND increase existing contracts with Panasonic AND seek out as many new suppliers as physically possible. Takeaway: Tesla want more batteries.

If vehicles average 100kWh battery packs, 10 GWh is only 100k vehicles. 50kWh, only 200k. Global sales in 2018 (of light passenger vehicles) were around 70M. Absent chip shortages and financial crashes, we could expect to hit 100M in three or four years. Yep, Tesla wants more batteries. And this number, 70M, is why sticking with Nickel-Cobalt is a Bad Idea. There's a lot more iron and phosphorus available for a lot c…

At the latest Q&A Elon said they were not focusing on the energy side of the business because it would require them to not make a number of cars due to being limited on battery / inverter supply.

This becomes exponentially harder as they add more and more power hungry vehicles to their lineup (see Cybertruck / Semi) and market more Mega/Gigapacks to grid operators.

It makes sense for Tesla to try to get as many batteries as possible from as many sources as possible.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#67

Post by mountainriver »

grecy wrote: post #31

Elon has said multiple times Tesla will buy all the batteries from all the suppliers they possibly can AND make their own as fast as possible AND increase existing contracts with Panasonic AND seek out as many new suppliers as physically possible. Takeaway: Tesla want more batteries.

That’s because Elon is genuinely trying to solve our energy problem, although people love to hate on him

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#68

Post by simondotau »

tuatoru wrote: post #43
DavidPiper wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a young(ish) person, I've definitely heard "fyi this is a CHINESE business", but haven't really heard "fyi this is a JEWISH business" or "fyi this is a JAPANESE business". Are there communicable/generalised messages or stereotypes people are trying to invoke with this sort of thing, or have they always just been intended as slander?

I can't speak to "Jewish", but I can to "Japanese". It relates to Japan's industrial rise after WWII. In the 1950s, "Japanese" was synonymous with "shoddy and cheap". The stereotypical import from Japan was an HB pencil. In the 1980s, "Japanese" became synonymous with "cheap and reliable" -- think Toyota vs General Motors. American manufacturers responded with racism rather than fixing their problems. There was hyste…

This change in attitudes was dramatised in 1985's Back To The Future.

  Doc Brown (from 1955)

        (Inspects the failed circuit)
    "Unbelievable that this little piece
    of junk could be such a big problem."
              (Turns it over)
    "No wonder this circuit failed, it
    says made in Japan."

  Marty (from 1985)

    "What do you mean doc, all the best
    stuff is made in Japan."

  Doc Brown

    "Unbelievable."

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#69

Post by monkeybutton »

CarVac wrote: post #23
cowmix wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better: * can charge to 100% all the time * no rare earth minerals * stable Worse: * not as energy dense * US doesn't make a lot of this type of battery

The US doesn't make a lot of this type of battery because there is a consortium of patent-holders who charge enough to make LFP less economically viable that wasn't able to secure all the needed patents in China.

Why charge so much to license that no one will bother? Is it sunk cost thinking? Some money from licensing is better than nothing at all isn't it?

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#70

Post by dylan604 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #7
r00fus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iron based batteries also remove cobalt and nickel requirements, making them less environmental and politically difficult. Anything to make EVs more mainstream has my interest.

Absolutely, it's a big part of why they're cheaper. I just wish I could actually get them for reasonable prices in smaller quantities. I have to pay a 3-5x premium for LiFePO4 batteries. I'd love some at a reasonable premium for my ebike :)

eBike batteries are as unique as all of the power tool ones so that they are all different. what's your approach to housing and connecting your DIY battery for your make/model?

i just recently became an eBike owner as well, and a second battery pack is 1/3 the price of the bike.

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