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How can we break our addiction to contempt?

freakonomics.com

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Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#111

Post by notenoughbeans »

newbie789 wrote: post #82

>…He has come to believe there is only one weapon that can defeat our extreme political polarization: love. Oh my, what a silly way to pitch a possible reader on your book. There is a (VERY conservative) town in my state where every single employee of the local department of transportation has quit over the vaccine mandate. Now the former employees and their conservative allies are gleefully posting about how “the li…

While it might be a silly way to pitch your book, I think your anecdote captures what he is saying pretty well. Rampant contempt is bad for everyone. It doesn't help you or the people for which you hold contempt.

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#112

Post by notenoughbeans »

md8z wrote: post #106
etherael wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isnt this argument predicated on the supposition that the only reason they are opposed to coercive experimental gene therapy is because they want to "own the libs?" I mean, maybe that's right but it seems unlikely when there are other much more obvious things to explain the reasons for the actions in question. That they then post hoc express schadenfreude for the party who they perceive to be responsible for the situ…

I'm not sure if you're saying this is your opinion, but just to be clear: Vaccine mandates are not coercive, the vaccine is not experimental, and vaccines in general are not gene therapy. To elaborate: You can consider work vaccine mandates to be similar to any other job requirement. The COVID vaccines have received a huge amount of studies and trials. And "gene therapy" usually refers to use of things like CRISPR-Ca…

What do you mean the vaccine mandates are not coercive? Isn't that the entire selling point of the mandates?

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#113

Post by TomSwirly »

tombert wrote: post #20

At some level I will be a permanent victim of movies and media, and as such there are absolutely politicians that I hate, but I've been trying to acknowledge to myself that, generally speaking, most of their voters mean well [1], even if they are voting for politicians that I think are disgusting. As such, I've tried to not "hate" them, even if I don't particularly like a good chunk of them either. [1] Though I have…

> most of their voters mean well

Can you give some sort of reason why you have this impression?

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#114

Post by md8z »

notenoughbeans wrote: post #112
md8z wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you're saying this is your opinion, but just to be clear: Vaccine mandates are not coercive, the vaccine is not experimental, and vaccines in general are not gene therapy. To elaborate: You can consider work vaccine mandates to be similar to any other job requirement. The COVID vaccines have received a huge amount of studies and trials. And "gene therapy" usually refers to use of things like CRISPR-Ca…

What do you mean the vaccine mandates are not coercive? Isn't that the entire selling point of the mandates?

The selling point of the mandates is to reduce spread of the virus.

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#115

Post by TomSwirly »

tombert wrote: post #85
Pxtl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge is that historically the political mainstream has been endlessly assuming good faith on obvious bad actors, to the point that Trump's obvious racism was controversial to point out because he didn't literally dress up as a Klansman wielding a noose. As a reaction to this problem you see the basic approach that the social justice wing has basically declared that intent doesn't matter . No more excuses. An…

Sorry for the second reply, but I wanted to elaborate on what I was saying. I actually think we might agree on a bit more than you might think. I actually am in that social-justice camp that says "intent mostly doesn't matter". I don't have the ability to read minds yet, so I can't possibly really know anyone's intent, so I have to look at the reasonable consequences of their actions and judge from there. That said,…

> That said, whether or not people are secretly klansmen or good deep down, they still exist, and they're still humans who deserve to have their voices heard at some level.

They don't believe this of us, and this is why they win, and we lose.

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#116

Post by JasonCannon »

at_a_remove wrote: post #100
JasonCannon wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like how women and people of color are CONSTANTLY despised for the incidents of their birth?

Therefore, I should be, as well? Everyone loathed, each individual despised. Somewhere, Diana Moon Glampers smiles ... we are at last equal.

No, I'm saying you should still stand for women and people of color instead of acting like supporting people who support them is against your own best interests.

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#117

Post by TomSwirly »

googlryas wrote: post #70
abbub wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean...it's not 'The Left' that's pushing the 'fake news' and 'alternate facts' agenda when they come up against anything they disagree with...

Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, and Rachel Maddow have all used "No one could honestly believe that what we say is really true" as an argument in legal proceedings against them.

> Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones

These are well-known...

> and Rachel Maddow

I couldn't find any such thing in the news. Source for that one?

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#118

Post by tombert »

TomSwirly wrote: post #113
tombert wrote: post #20

At some level I will be a permanent victim of movies and media, and as such there are absolutely politicians that I hate, but I've been trying to acknowledge to myself that, generally speaking, most of their voters mean well [1], even if they are voting for politicians that I think are disgusting. As such, I've tried to not "hate" them, even if I don't particularly like a good chunk of them either. [1] Though I have…

> most of their voters mean well Can you give some sort of reason why you have this impression?

I have conservative members of my family, who I admittedly don’t talk to very often anymore, but when I do I do get a vibe that they believe what they’re saying. They genuinely think that Donald Trump really Made America Great Again, and that Joe Biden exist to destroy America.

I don’t agree with either of those statements, and I think their actions as a result of these beliefs are bad, but I do think they want things to be best for America, though I think they have a different definition of “best”

Obviously this is anecdata, but you asked why I believed this.

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#119

Post by notenoughbeans »

md8z wrote: post #114
notenoughbeans wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean the vaccine mandates are not coercive? Isn't that the entire selling point of the mandates?

The selling point of the mandates is to reduce spread of the virus.

Yes, that is ultimately the end goal of the mandates, but the selling point of the mandates is that they are a tool to get people who would otherwise remain vaccinated to get vaccinated by introducing additional costs (ie. coercion)

Re: How can we break our addiction to contempt?

#120

Post by TomSwirly »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #77
mrtesthah wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'The Left' absolutely does this as too. Remember when Biden claimed that COVID-19 was invented by the Republicans to make his presidency look bad? Remember when Obama refused to acknowledge that Trump won the presidency and when CNN aired nonstop coverage from conspiracy theorists claiming that the entire election was fraudulent? Remember when Obama claimed months in advance that any election in which a Democrat lo…

This is very likely to devolve into a partisan squabble, so I don't want to keep going back and forth on this. I was ready to cite examples of the left playing fast and loose with the truth but I sense it will just create hostility. If I pick only one example, it looks like I'm not prepared and have nothing substantial to counter with. If I list multiple examples, it will look like I came here prepared for a fight as…

I'm not an American, but this is silly.

> I was ready to cite examples of the left playing fast and loose with the truth but I sense it will just create hostility.

I mean, sounds like an excuse to not participate.

The question seems quite black and white.

We have a few classic lies:

* Obama is a Muslim from Kenya * His wife is transgender * Climate change is a hoax * COVID is a hoax * Climate change is a hoax * There is not enough pollution in the world * The Democrats are Communists * The Democrats run an occult pederasty wing through Twitter * Trump won the 2020 election

All of these are widely believed by Conservatives and all of these have been widely spread by Conservative speakers.

Can you find even one comparable lie to any of these spread by prominent Democrats (not some random Twitter account)?

Trump is is in a category of his own.

* Here he is claiming to be the best at all these fields he knows nothing about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GqJna9hpTE * Here are his lies about COVID: https://doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-t... * Here's an approximate count of his lies over 4 years - https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-fa...

All of his lies have been strongly supported by Republicans

Can you find one Democrat a fraction as mendacious as Donald Trump?

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