Live data from Hacker News

Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

appleinsider.com

181–190 of 209 posts

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#181
Apple's just flexing some managerial muscle, but they're doing it at an odd time. (Workers are sort of valued right now.)

I think Apple's just ahead of the curve. Things have gotten too soft, they need to tighten things back up to stay competitive for the future.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#182
post #118
post #14

I guess I’m just old school but I come from a time when I’d be fired for any negative public or even internal comments. And I’m ok with that. I’d rather just quit than try to change a company this way. Or I’d just work into leadership and make executive decisions. Or I’d start a company and do it my way. I just don’t see leadership being convinced by me complaining on Twitter or starting an internal complaint slack c…

Not being harassed at your workplace should be the norm, not some luxury benefit that you move to a different company for. Pressure for better working conditions always comes from workers themselves, rather than management, because the priorities are simply different. I'm assuming you come from a time where strong unions were still a thing. They were a hard-won victory for workers' rights, and a necessity to improve…

Maybe it’s just my opinion but there is a world of difference between being forced to work on a factory floor for 16 hours without a break and “The company didn’t denounce…” or “my company is making me return to office…”

Perhaps they have other grievances but I guarantee they pale in comparison to what the labor movement worked to solve years back.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#183
post #101
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the work rules that make a lot of American unions distasteful to workers. A lot of people just don’t want to work in a place where people routinely say stuff like, “that’s not my job, union rules.” The Wizard of Speed and Time is a great film about how difficult it is to be an independent creator in Hollywood due to the costs of getting anything started. The unions make it very hard to bootstrap anything without…

Funny thing about unions. If you form your own union, you get to write the rules. The agreement with the employer is a matter of negotiation, but the operation of the union is entirely the prerogative of the union as long as it's legal. Don't want to operate a holywood-style guild? Then don't.

But industries are always joining some of the mega-union because they have most effective lobbying, I will quit before I join aflcio or similar.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am in top 1% worker, and if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more, why should I not "nodding along on union busting talking points"? I like my very very large paycheck.

because it's not a zero sum game? those union busting talking points keep you focused on your less-fortunate colleagues and and not the obscenely wealthy guy screwing the both of you over.

But if i turn over to a union there is small assurance i will not take some pay cut. I doubt people making so much are top of bargaining priority list, probably more rank-and-files level are their focus. And then I have turned over my rights to majority, so it is suck up what my coworker wants or leave. It is similar for employer, i must suck up what it want or leave, but I already known these terms are okay with employer. Since i am not in majority bracket of workers this probably is not good.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dude, I am neither the author nor the quoted source of the article I linked. Dial it down a notch hey? Also, your other comments are pretty extensively addressed in the same article.

No, but you have cited an article and source that has been proven to be incorrect on the topic. You went to the effort to find said piece of information but skipped the next search result on google where tons of apple employees say 'nahh thats bullshit' 'yeah you can, but you dont have to, most managers tell you not to and only an idiot would do that'

I looked for contrary articles and didn't see any. If you have some handy, posting links to them would add a lot more to the conversation than randomly spewing invective at me.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#186
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am in top 1% worker, and if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more, why should I not "nodding along on union busting talking points"? I like my very very large paycheck.

That could be interpreted as "I've got mine, Jack. Why should I give a fuck about anybody else?" This raises the question: if you only care about yourself, why should we care about you?

Why it is selfish for me to want my paycheck but not when you want me to take some maybe paycut to pay you more?

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#187
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am in top 1% worker, and if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more, why should I not "nodding along on union busting talking points"? I like my very very large paycheck.

> if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more Who says that’s what will happen? Tom Cruise is a member of SAG, do you think he gets paid SAG union rates? Union busters in tech have done a fantastic job of convincing engineers that all unions are blue-collar. Which is funny, because you only have to look to Hollywood to see unions like SAG, the DGA, and the WGA which exist to pro…

Guild is some exception, not so common in unions. Always it end up more like typical aflcio union. I also have made some switch between front end and back end in job, have done some security job and back to normal developing, all these are usually harder in unions. Maybe in theory it is not required but in practice it is almost always this way.

Also I have started prior tech company, it would have been hugely difficult if i had to make negotiations with unions.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#188
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am in top 1% worker, and if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more, why should I not "nodding along on union busting talking points"? I like my very very large paycheck.

Next time you need help by others remember "Why should they?" Your paycheck become worthless if society gets fucked up.

I guess i forgot some consideration that disaffected brogrammers may start new revolution for payed only $85,000 not $125,000.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#189
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to continue in that metaphor, it's worth noting that here and most anywhere with something resembling "the freedom this country offers" was formerly a monarchy in which people thinking critically about the way it was structured started causing chaos and sowing discontent, so they could try this other way that people didn't think would work. say about that what you will. it's not surprising that efforts are being made…

> Democratic management of capital That’s probably the best euphemism I’ve heard since “enhanced interrogation techniques”

it's not a euphemism? it's a literalism.

i don't think anyone would disagree that currently widespread models of management don't involve democratic processes.

a lot of the activism internal to large companies today is in direct response to perceived failures of management, and seeks to demonstrate broad internal support for specific actions. they would be satisfied if they had an institutional remedy instead of just petitions to the "king"

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#190
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to continue in that metaphor, it's worth noting that here and most anywhere with something resembling "the freedom this country offers" was formerly a monarchy in which people thinking critically about the way it was structured started causing chaos and sowing discontent, so they could try this other way that people didn't think would work. say about that what you will. it's not surprising that efforts are being made…

> it's not surprising that efforts are being made today to decentralize power within the private sphere and create broader rights and democratic management of capital. So does Joe the plumber whom you hired to fix the sink now have rights to determine how your household is run? Does he and Jimmy the electrician (who wired up the place) get to vote on who can live in your house or what the household budget should be s…

if Joe the plumber came to my house every day to plumb for me the way i asked, and i handled his healthcare and bought him all his pipes and tools, and he depended on me and i on him by the terms of our agreement, yeah i should probably listen to him if he has a concern

if he and Jimmy and the thousand other dudes that apparently come to my house every day all have feelings about something, it might end up looking like a democratic process

but it would be really silly to run a huge business like that out of my home. good thing Joe and Jimmy only come by once in a while and don't give a fuck what i do here.

anyway, strawmen like yours or mine are irrelevant, materially it's clear that workers in large companies are seeking to reform governance processes of those companies and gain more control. they will probably continue to try regardless of anyone else's opinion of it, they are systemically incentivized, because more control would benefit them.

Post reply on HN