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Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#111

Post by d4mi3n »

sebisaacsinflow wrote: post #96
d4mi3n wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn’t the cost, it’s the way folks with ADHD are being charged. The whole point here is to help folks who are having trouble remembering to do things. Regardless of the economics, the optics here make this seem like exploitation. Making this opt-in avoids a dark pattern. Folks with ADHD are often impulsive and strike while the iron is hot—if this has value people will opt-in.

Appreciate the feedback and we're working on potential solutions to this. We do refund everybody who requests one and send reminder emails and notification within 2 days of the free trial ending.

Fantastic to hear this--as the OP mentioned, having ADHD makes it hard to follow up on stuff like this.

The original announcement mentioned you folks have a neuro-diverse team, which I applaud and respect. I hope you really take advantage of this to dog-food your own product and on/offboarding processes to catch stuff like this going forward.

Keep at it! I'd love to see you succeed with this product.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#112

Post by luigi23 »

sebisaacsinflow wrote: post #101
yummypaint wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as?

- Opt in free trial without putting in card details - Longer free trial - One-off purchase vs subscription - Web sign-up In addition to these we also send email and notification reminders before the free trial ends and refund everybody who requests one.

I don't think that longer trial will help here. Rather it will worsen the problem.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#113

Post by yummypaint »

sebisaacsinflow wrote: post #81
skeletron wrote: post #22

Many of the reviews of the Android app are quite critical of the trial and payment model, for example: > CAUTION: After the free trial period (7 days), they will charge for an annual subscription ($102.95 US). This is OPT OUT, not opt in. In other reviews they say they will offer a refund (I will update when/if I get one) but for an app for people with executive function issues, an opt out format seems shady. Either…

Thanks for highlighting this - we're trying to figure out what the best model is for our community. A lot of other apps follow a similar model, we allow people to cancel anytime and have refunded everyone that has forgotten to cancel. Some people also like having the subscription because it is a pay per use model rather than putting everyone under the same one-off bundle. We're working on extending the free trial / m…

I can assure you that absolutely no-one "likes" being charged a full years subscription in advance.

We're working on extending the free trial / moving to a freemium model.

Please. You aren't spaceX "working on" your next engine, or AMD "working on" the next processor architecture. All you have to do to end the unethical behavior is flip a few bits in a database. Don't pretend it's some kind of grand technical challenge.

You're luring in people who are trying to improve their mental health and tricking them out of their money. The product isn't even technically innovative. No idea why YC is compromising its brand like this.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#114

Post by PragmaticPulp »

tonyarkles wrote: post #69
symlinkk wrote: post #52

Does therapy actually work? I’ve always been under the impression that it was mostly placebo, and that only medication produces meaningful results. Happy to be proven wrong though

During my diagnosis I discussed both pharmaceutical and therapy options with my psychiatrist. His take, which is definitely subject to his own biases, was "lots of my patients choose to do both therapy and pharmaceuticals, but after starting the drugs they kind of lose interest in the therapy part of things because the drugs work so well for most patients. Not all. Some have benefited tremendously from therapy."

It’s less because the medications are so effective relative to therapy. Ideal solution is a combination treatment. However, it’s hard to convince people to make scheduled appointments to interact with another person and discuss part of themself they’re not proud of, so many people reach for medications instead of therapy in all psychiatric conditions (not just ADHD).

Therapy is actually a wonderful adjunct to medication because it helps instill lasting behavioral changes. A lot of people mistake the early motivational boost of stimulants for ADHD remission, but once the energizing effect of stimulants disappears due to tolerance, they’re left with the same bad habits they started with. Therapy can help build a better foundation for when the energizing side effect of stimulants disappears and only the attention-enhancing effects remain.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#115

Post by levi-epstein »

krono wrote: post #61

Hey, fellow invalid here. I will be checking out the app, but am unlikely to convert to a paid subscription due to my treatment already being covered. One thing I find very off-putting, is the rose-coloured, almost "success guaranteed"-like image your website and app store page sketches. This product is no wishing-well that your customerpatients can simply throw money at and magically feel better. For this to ever ha…

Thank you very much for your feedback here - really appreciate the input here. We're making updates and changes to our onboarding + website and will definitely take your points into consideration.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#117

Post by photochemsyn »

The ADD (1980) / ADHD (1989) world has always been fairly shady in my opinion. The argument that this disability was invented rather than discovered so that pharmaceutical outfits could push amphetamines on kids is fairly valid, and a lot of the 'adult ADHD' behaviors seem equally explainable as a side effect of amphetamine addiction:

> "ADHD drugs, such as Adderall and Ritalin, increase levels of the brain chemical dopamine and provide mental stimulation. This, in turn, allows users to become more focused and calm because they no longer need to engage in self-stimulating behavior."

> "The number of young people abusing ADHD medication has been steadily increasing over the last five years, with almost 9 percent of high school seniors abusing and approximately 35 percent of college students in the same category. And unfortunately, this misuse does have consequences: Over 19,000 people have suffered from complications related to ADHD drugs since 2013."

It gets less attention than opiate abuse as deadly overdoses are much less common, but amphetamine addiction has major psychological effects - whether we are talking about street meth, ritalin, adderall, desoxyn, etc., the general effect is the same.

In addition, there's no clear diagnostic test for ADD/ADHD (no way to even distinguish between the two), it's just an opinion based on the subjective judgements of psychiatrists - and yes, just as with the opiate business, there are kickbacks with the pharma outfits and reckless prescription practices.

1. https://drugabuse.com/blog/spotlight-on-adhd-meds-and-their-...

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#118

Post by sebisaacsinflow »

542458 wrote: post #7

At risk of asking a stupid question, have you had people without ADHD try your app? Does this type of CBT have any potential benefits for non-neurodiverse people?

Not a stupid question at all! ADHD impacts executive functioning which a lot of people struggle with whether they qualify for a diagnosis of ADHD or not. While we have had users who don't have a diagnosis of ADHD use the app, naturally the benefits are felt a lot more by people who know they have ADHD.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#119

Post by d4mi3n »

toqy wrote: post #57
mStreamTeam wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with ADHD, I can confirm this model is super predatory. I cancel all my credit cards every year just to get rid of all opt-in charges on regular basis

If you aren't doing so already, you should look into if your card has virtual cards. Capital One for example does. I think it would make your current process easier.

I use Privacy[1] for this and would highly recommend the service to anybody using a bank that doesn't have an easy and convenient way to issue disposable card numbers (most US banks).

1. https://privacy.com/

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#120

Post by caddemon »

jstx1 wrote: post #55
symlinkk wrote: post #52

Does therapy actually work? I’ve always been under the impression that it was mostly placebo, and that only medication produces meaningful results. Happy to be proven wrong though

> I’ve always been under the impression that it was mostly placebo I don't think placebo is relevant in the case of therapy because placebo itself is a psychological effect. CBT seems to be somewhat effective but with these things people's experiences vary a lot.

They do placebo-controlled trials of therapy techniques like CBT, although for an educated patient it may not be a great placebo - similar to the problem with trying to placebo psychedelics. But basically you can assign the patients randomly to either an informational session on the disorder + unstructured talk "therapy", or the actual therapy method such as CBT.

CBT does perform quite well repeatedly in these sorts of experiments, particularly for depression (it is less studied in some other disorders although still promising). You're right there can be a lot of variance between people though. There can also be additional variance IRL due to therapist quality IMO.

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