Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues • Hacker News Board

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#101

Post by nyxaiur » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 11:44 AM UTC

ketzo wrote: post #29

So, as someone with a lot of very strong opinions about both League of Legends and online communication, I am wildly in favor of this decision. The problem with all-chat in League of Legends, particularly in the ranked queue, is that it can only hurt your team's chances to win. At best, you're wasting time typing; at worst, you're actively frustrating and distracting yourself from what is already a very difficult gam…

That's just not the way to handle a community /all-chat is OPT-IN since nearly 8 years ago. That said there sure is an abundance of toxicity in League of Legends and other competitive games, it comes with the nature of competitive sports or esports.

The question is why they decide to take away an OPT-IN feature (you can also mute single players) which a huge size of their player base uses to build their own communities and friendships.

For me this is a total surrender from a dev studio that has a history of going about problems in radical/disputed ways without regards to their own communities criticism. Dynamic Que, Twisted Tree Lines, No Voice Communication, Chat Restrictions and so much more. Riots approach to solving problems is basically "If the house is on fire better call the ambulance." They will achieve their goal to save some of toxicity but they let the house burn to the ground.

There are also way more intelligent ways to combat toxicity as blizzard and other publishers show in their games. If you flame your opponents and the bad filter catches it a message like "gg ez" would be translated into something like "I’m wrestling with some insecurity issues in my life but thank you all for playing with me." or "It’s past my bedtime. Please don’t tell my mommy.". Electronic Arts is simply shadow banning players.

The most important part is the loss of player engagement. As a player you now can't distinguish if you are playing against real players or bots and I truly believe this is the real ground for concern if you watch their dev vlog about their progress with AI bots I am 100% sure that we will see AI bots in the near future on servers with a dwindling active playerbase.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#102

Post by EvenThisAcronym » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

ketzo wrote: post #29

So, as someone with a lot of very strong opinions about both League of Legends and online communication, I am wildly in favor of this decision. The problem with all-chat in League of Legends, particularly in the ranked queue, is that it can only hurt your team's chances to win. At best, you're wasting time typing; at worst, you're actively frustrating and distracting yourself from what is already a very difficult gam…

> The problem with all-chat in League of Legends, particularly in the ranked queue, is that it can only hurt your team's chances to win. At best, you're wasting time typing; at worst, you're actively frustrating and distracting yourself from what is already a very difficult game.

I don't agree; /all is a very viable vector for giving your team a huge leg up. If you are skilled at talking shit, you can usually tilt someone on the other team so much that they become a non-factor. So many times I've seen the enemy team turn on each-other because one of their laners made some small mistake, which I capitalized on as a chance to relentlessly attack them in /all chat. They become tilted and start playing poorly, their team starts attacking them as well for the poor play, and often they will either troll, constantly call for a surrender, or even AFK in the fountain. The mental aspect of the game is just another tool in your arsenal for gaining an advantage over the enemy, and in my opinion it's just as important as the mechanical and strategic aspects.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#103

Post by alpaca128 » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 12:28 AM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #94

alpaca128 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what exactly you're proposing. LoL chat is not a server-wide communication channel, it's a separate chat within each of thousands of games running at the same time. I can't imagine an efficient way to moderate all this without just relying on reports. And reports give insight into the complete chat history within that game. Not quite enough for all situations, but definitely not out of context. This is c…

> This is chat in countless 10-player-games, not some Battlefield server that runs 24/7 with 64 players where moderation/admins in realtime actually make sense. What about griefers? People who join games only to sabotage their own team? There are some problems that can only really be solved by an intelligent human watching a player for multiple games, and figuring out a pattern.

Those intelligent humans are the other players reporting the griefer. In the case of LoL this might even be done by enemy players as well in particularly annoying cases. When a player gets daily reports for half a week that means dozens of players looked at multiple games and decided something's wrong.

No need to have someone manually review games by default.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#104

Post by gsich » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #53

alpaca128 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what exactly you're proposing. LoL chat is not a server-wide communication channel, it's a separate chat within each of thousands of games running at the same time. I can't imagine an efficient way to moderate all this without just relying on reports. And reports give insight into the complete chat history within that game. Not quite enough for all situations, but definitely not out of context. This is c…

It’s still the same problem though - more so in mobas because leaving a game in progress completely ruins it for everyone. You can’t even just strict kick someone out of an in progress game. League and mobas in general have a reputation for toxicity because you more or less have to work together to win, even with wide skill gaps. Reports are all post game - wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t do a bunch of ML on use…

Except the enemy team. They'll enjoy their free win.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#105

Post by post_from_work » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 4:10 AM UTC

saberience wrote: post #83

post_from_work wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Imagine playing casual pick-up basketball in the park on a team of 5, and you try one play that doesn’t quite work, and your teammates first reaction is to go “Wow you must really suck at basketball to try that!” Or: “Go home and quit, dumbass.” You’d probably feel a little bad, but also just never want to play with that group again. Now imagine 70% of all basketball games you try to play have people yelling at yo…

Try playing a few hours of Dota and then revising your opinion. Comparing an online game to playing hearts with friends in real life is a completely invalid comparison. Griefing on another level is possible in Dota and it can go on for 30mins to an hour, this would NEVER happen in an in real life game of cards or dominoes. Also, when you're playing hearts with friends, your friends aren't telling you to kill yourself…

>>>Also, when you're playing hearts with friends, your friends aren't telling you to kill yourself, it's light hearted banter.

Ha! Play cards with Marines. We absolutely tell people to "suck-start their service weapon" (that means put a gun in your mouth and shoot yourself) after a particularly incompetent play.

>>>In Dota you have to get ready to be called: "a fucking moron", "stupid bitch get back to the kitchen", every racist bit of slang you can imagine.

Yeah, those are bog-standard internet noise. I expect it every time I'm at the top of the leaderboard in an FPS. Just hit them back with some superlative savagery of your own, which should be easier than breathing.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#106

Post by f1refly » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

ketzo wrote: post #29

So, as someone with a lot of very strong opinions about both League of Legends and online communication, I am wildly in favor of this decision. The problem with all-chat in League of Legends, particularly in the ranked queue, is that it can only hurt your team's chances to win. At best, you're wasting time typing; at worst, you're actively frustrating and distracting yourself from what is already a very difficult gam…

Moba games are a psychological battle just as much as they are a skill based one, it is totally possible to tilt the enemy team enough to turn tide. Besides, have you ever considered that some of your teammates might play the game for, you know, fun?

The majority of interactions I have had through /all where playful ones, challenging the enemy, just having a bit of a chat. You hate the /all chat because you think this is wasted time on your way to a game victory, but I ask you, if I'm having fun, and the enemy is having fun, is it wasted time? As I see it, you are glad riot now choose your preferences as a serious gaming business kind of dude over the people who want to have actual fun playing games, and that's okay, but you could at least reflect on this.

Besides, 99% of all flame and bad mood doesn't come from the enemy team, it comes from your own team. In fact, I'd like an option to mute my team and leave the /all chat open. I don't give a fuck about why my jungler thinks I was in a position to help him when i clearly wasn't or that my botlane thinks i should danger ping them in addition to my ss.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#107

Post by dragontamer » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

alpaca128 wrote: post #103

dragontamer wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is chat in countless 10-player-games, not some Battlefield server that runs 24/7 with 64 players where moderation/admins in realtime actually make sense. What about griefers? People who join games only to sabotage their own team? There are some problems that can only really be solved by an intelligent human watching a player for multiple games, and figuring out a pattern.

Those intelligent humans are the other players reporting the griefer. In the case of LoL this might even be done by enemy players as well in particularly annoying cases. When a player gets daily reports for half a week that means dozens of players looked at multiple games and decided something's wrong. No need to have someone manually review games by default.

What if the mob is wrong about griefing? What if there's just a downvote mob because X is a streamer and they're trolling them through the moderation system?