Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues • Hacker News Board

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#91

Post by thatguy0900 » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

post_from_work wrote: post #75

californical wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just kinda ruins the game, which makes people not want to play. People get really aggressive when they built their identity around “being good at x”. So if you’re their teammate and you make a decision that they think is wrong, they see you as losing the game for them (even if you think it was right). Same as sports, but you’re generally playing with random anonymous people online that changes every game, so there’s…

>>>Imagine playing casual pick-up basketball in the park on a team of 5, and you try one play that doesn’t quite work, and your teammates first reaction is to go “Wow you must really suck at basketball to try that!” Or: “Go home and quit, dumbass.” You’d probably feel a little bad, but also just never want to play with that group again. Now imagine 70% of all basketball games you try to play have people yelling at yo…

In real life there is a limit on how hard you can go or how serious you're insults can be without physical conflict or being ostracized by other players. Not so in a video game.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#92

Post by nkrisc » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

Kelteseth wrote: post #52

ketzo wrote: post #29

So, as someone with a lot of very strong opinions about both League of Legends and online communication, I am wildly in favor of this decision. The problem with all-chat in League of Legends, particularly in the ranked queue, is that it can only hurt your team's chances to win. At best, you're wasting time typing; at worst, you're actively frustrating and distracting yourself from what is already a very difficult gam…

It is funny how Dota 2 goes completely in the opposite direction. It lets you taunt[1], spray paint[2] and high five your teammate(useful when you kill an enemy). Because this (mind game) is part of winning Dota matches. You win when the opposing team loses its spirit. [1] https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Taunt_(Equipment)#List [2] https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Sprays

Ok, cool, that's their design choice, but that doesn't sound fun. If that' the kind of environment they want to foster, that's fine, but that seems terribly off-putting. I'm not really going to enjoy a game where my opponents are encouraged to taunt me when I lose. That just doesn't sound very fun.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#93

Post by dragontamer » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

OneTimePetes wrote: post #69

ketzo wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and Dota’s got a fucking miserable community, too. They have voice chat amongst teammates, though, which totally changes the way people communicate. Toxicity is an online communication problem, and particularly a multiplayer videogame problem, and particularly a MOBA problem. There are lots of thoughts on how to fix it. One that has not been tried very much is “take away their toys”; I, for one, am excited.

Toxicity is the situation most people are that escape into video games to get a life they do not have. Toxicity is a society that treats people as replaceable cogs for low-wage jobs. When ones snide remark on your "a minute late"-late flies into ones face in the evening, all the censoring in the world will not make that world go away. They will dance insults and write "cunt" in spells and corpses on your screen. The…

Or you know, they're just an asshole.

I got some acquaintances who taunt and jeer me face-to-face in board games, and they're well paid professionals paid 6+ figures. So yeah, I stopped playing boardgames with them and play with others.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#94

Post by dragontamer » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

alpaca128 wrote: post #49

trabant00 wrote: post #31

Servers require moderators/administrators. I hosted the counterstrike server in my university a long time ago, that's how I got into linux, and while at first I thought it would be a technical challenge it turned out to be a people problem mostly. Police language, resolve conflicts, even got into a physical fight with a banned player. Obviously companies don't want server administrators because they want to scale wit…

I'm not sure what exactly you're proposing. LoL chat is not a server-wide communication channel, it's a separate chat within each of thousands of games running at the same time. I can't imagine an efficient way to moderate all this without just relying on reports. And reports give insight into the complete chat history within that game. Not quite enough for all situations, but definitely not out of context. This is c…

> This is chat in countless 10-player-games, not some Battlefield server that runs 24/7 with 64 players where moderation/admins in realtime actually make sense.

What about griefers? People who join games only to sabotage their own team?

There are some problems that can only really be solved by an intelligent human watching a player for multiple games, and figuring out a pattern.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#95

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

ungawatkt wrote: post #14

glanzwulf wrote: post #7

Not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, I get it, all chat can be a source of twisted toxic wasteland. But on the other hand, sometimes it's fun, so let people communicate and solve the toxic wasteland some other way. A simpler fix for me would've been give the users the option to hide/deactivate the all chat. If they want to talk they'll keep it on if the other team is a bunch of dicks they'll report them and h…

I dunno, at this point "LOL toxic" is such a meme that it's probably a reasonable barrier to entry for folks,so they're probably trying to address that. And "sometimes fun" isn't enough to get over "usually not fun". And it isn't entirely unreasonable, I thought the toxicity was overstated until I tried league, and my first game I got yelled at and called various slurs for not playing right, same for the next 2 games…

Yea, was any of that in all chat, or team chat?

Your team generally cares if you play well. The other team is looking at a free win, what do they care.

Sometimes it might be toxic, but likely 9/10 times the toxicity is from your own team (200 games in the last year).

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#96

Post by cowvin » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

drenvuk wrote: post #55

ketzo wrote: post #29

So, as someone with a lot of very strong opinions about both League of Legends and online communication, I am wildly in favor of this decision. The problem with all-chat in League of Legends, particularly in the ranked queue, is that it can only hurt your team's chances to win. At best, you're wasting time typing; at worst, you're actively frustrating and distracting yourself from what is already a very difficult gam…

/all was opt in. this is basically barrens chat from literal decades ago. I feel like things turned out ok back then. What's the difference now?

I mean in World of Warcraft, Horde and Alliance could never chat freely with each other due to the language barrier so it wasn't full of trash talk.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#97

Post by throw149102 » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

bentheax wrote: post #59

I have a friend who plays DotA 2 reguarly who alleges that toxicity is much less of a problem with that community because players can call out good or bad sportsmanship at the match end and this is taken into account by the matchmaking system. This results in all the trollers and flamers and griefers mostly getting matched up with each other in a mutually contstructed cesspit while the fun games happen elsewhere. Doe…

From my experience playing DotA 2, it does help, but it's not a magic bullet. You will have a lot less people griefing/throwing, but you'll still have a hyper-competitive atmosphere where people will shit on each other for fucking up. So trolling is rarer, griefing is rarer, but flaming is still pretty common.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#98

Post by subjectsigma » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

Ctrl-f'd "bot" and I didn't see any comments so I'll throw in my 2c.

I play LoL very casually and I'm pretty new at the game, but I know some people in Platinum/Diamond/Challenger and they all hate this decision. To paraphrase one friend who is in and out of Challenger:

"/all chat is not the major source of flaming and BM, it's game design.

The number one problem Riot has is bots. There's already some fairly strict filters in place to ban players who say bad things to each other, but it doesn't really matter when you can go online and buy an account for $10 and be instantly back in the game. I myself have many multiple accounts for a variety of reasons. Many high-level players I know have multiple accounts and some of them have been banned at one point; they're all still playing. Riot knows this but they basically can't stop people botting to 30 and flipping the account, and they can't stop the online marketplaces that sell the accounts, so they don't try. Instead they make less effective decisions that players don't want, such as disabling /all. If they could get rid of botting people would actually be scared of bans because losing access to Ranked and all your stuff (champs, skins, etc.) becomes a real danger.

Add this to the fact that it is so ridiculously easy to throw games and deny early surrenders, and you get a dangerous cocktail where a small amount of players can instantly run the fun of nine other people with very little consequence."

I'm not 100% sure I buy this but these people collectively have >10K hours in the game and I have less than 50, so I defer to them.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#99

Post by X-Cubed » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 1:48 AM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #68

The problem is that the only way to drop out is to mute everyone else. But then, psychologically, it feels like you're losing. Because you're opting out of chat while the toxic people don't. What it should be instead is that your teammates, and the opponents can call a vote-mute for team and all-chats. This way you place the toxic person out of the social circle, not yourself. But I guess you could also just give up,…

I find that there are a couple of problems with vote-mute:

- the damage has already been done before the vote gets called, and often the mute only applies to subsequent communications, so the initial abusive message still appears in the chat window.

- it requires collaboration to solve the problem, when your team is likely too busy playing the game, or don't feel as strongly as you do about the comment that was made.

Re: Disabling /all chat in matchmade queues

#100

Post by kubb » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 8:18 AM UTC

cdr wrote: post #64

heromal wrote: post #41

The problem is team chat. The first thing I do every match is /mute all , because the chance of me getting question ping spammed, flamed, etc. is much higher than someone actually saying something useful in chat. I've been playing this game since Fiddlesticks was released in 2009, and it has always harbored the most vile children you'll come across online. It's like back in 2005 when you'd hear squeakers calling you…

You've had the ability to turn off team chat in settings for quite awhile. I also turn it off, both all and team.

It's a different game without team chat. When we're loosing hard I can just invent some minigame, like go farm enemy jungle or go hide somewhere in a bush while they break into our base. Otherwise it just feels like a chill game.