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On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

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Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#201

Post by sfblah »

wmitty wrote: post #188
PKop wrote: post #118

Why is there an assumption that citizenship should extend to people living outside of a country as citizens of another country? There's a lot of complaints here about annoying and costly taxation of "expats" but there's no discussion of why it should be valid to have citizenship but not reside in that country's borders? What is citizenship for except to actually be a citizen? And what does that mean, living in anothe…

I was born in the US to Canadian parents who promptly moved back to Canada where I have lived for the subsequent 55 years. Other than a US birth certificate I had no interaction with the US gov - we politely ignored eachother like a huge number of Canadians in the same situation. The informal status quo was that we both acted as if the "US citizenship by birth in the US" thing had not happened. Until a few years ago…

Serious question: How did they even find you? Did they seriously do a dragnet of all birth certificates and send you a letter in Canada or something?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#202

Post by porknubbins »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #139
voisin wrote: post #16

The conversation here at this moment seems to be focused solely on whether or not it is complicated or costly to keep filing US taxes. This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live. The only other country to do so is Eritrea and the US has routinely criticized them for doing so. Moreover, it makes expats ineligible for c…

I've always thought it was something like a middle finger to americans who leave. "You're not part of this project, get out and stay out." There was a bill in the 1990s to permanently ban any Americans who renounce from coming back, which is hardcore. But we're also a country that to war over a few states leaving. Whatever the reasons, it was equally hardcore to sacrifice so many to stop it. Maybe an intense dislike…

I would say countries that prohibit dual citizenship are much more punitive towards those who leave. In the case of the US, compared to say Western Europe, we are so much more inward looking that policy towards expats is mostly one of neglect to even consider their interests.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#203

Post by TacticalCoder »

PKop wrote: post #118

Why is there an assumption that citizenship should extend to people living outside of a country as citizens of another country? There's a lot of complaints here about annoying and costly taxation of "expats" but there's no discussion of why it should be valid to have citizenship but not reside in that country's borders? What is citizenship for except to actually be a citizen? And what does that mean, living in anothe…

By your logic citizenship should then be granted to anyone deciding to go live in another country. Either that or country should prevent immigrants from moving there.

There are people who, during their lifetime, live on different countries. So according to you someone who lives in four countries should change nationality three times?

> I think it's even perfectly valid for nations to ban dual citizenship itself.

Some do, some don't. In doubt I always vote for the option giving the individual more freedom: so even though I don't hold dual citizenship, I'm glad for those who do (except when it's US + another one and the US one proves to be a pain when living outside the US, as is the case in TFA).

> What interest of a nation does it serve to cater to these people that have left for greener pastures?

All I see is a free individual telling her tale.

BTW you used the term "rootless cosmopolitan" to describe her: apparently that's some soviet-era antisemitic insult.

The evil free individual, how dared she abandon the nation state?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#204

Post by wmitty »

sfblah wrote: post #201
wmitty wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born in the US to Canadian parents who promptly moved back to Canada where I have lived for the subsequent 55 years. Other than a US birth certificate I had no interaction with the US gov - we politely ignored eachother like a huge number of Canadians in the same situation. The informal status quo was that we both acted as if the "US citizenship by birth in the US" thing had not happened. Until a few years ago…

Serious question: How did they even find you? Did they seriously do a dragnet of all birth certificates and send you a letter in Canada or something?

They tell all the Canadian banks and financial institutions that they have to ask all customers whether they are US citizens (and you lose account access if you won't answer).

The Canadian banks then have to report all the accounts of US citizens to the US gov. The banks comply with all this because otherwise they get super nasty fines against their us operations.

Also: they tell you that if you come in under the amnesty program (like I did) that their will be no big penalties - but if you wait until the amnesty program expires - and they then find you - they will treat you like a criminal.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#205

Post by ska »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #192
ska wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just your paperwork. In many countries you'll be denied seemingly basic financial services by institutions because FACTA would make their paperwork too much hassle.

OK then she should just keep being an American. Right?

Renouncing citizenship makes that all go away. Her call.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#208

Post by kyleee »

nonameiguess wrote: post #38

For what it's worth, there are a few other reasons a US citizen may be compelled to disclose quite a bit of financial detail without being criminals. Just from what I've experienced, joining the Army, getting a security clearance, and attempting to become an adoptive parent all required having to disclose basically everything, up to and including people coming to my house to interrogate me on why I got divorced 18 ye…

To be fair, hellish experiences with bureaucracies, licensing bodies, etc. are by no means unique to the US; I take it you've never experienced the joy of a French bureaucracy

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#209

Post by ryanlol »

welder wrote: post #85
throw63738 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice US citizens have it difficult to even open simple bank account. Most foreign companies prefer not to deal with US gov.

Yes! Banks in Germany would flatly say "we can't help you" when I pulled out my US passport. The only one I could get was Number26, which is technically only an online bank account.

> which is technically only an online bank account.

Which is technically also a normal bank account.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#210

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

metagame wrote: post #200
dd_roger wrote: post #171

Honestly I find it pretty fucked up that someone would renounce their citizenship "for convenience". I can't really comprehend how their country could mean so little to someone, especially when that country is a democracy. Regarding the taxation when living abroad, doesn't it actually make sense? Sure it sounds like an oddity because the US are the only to do it, but most emigrants I know still use the consular servi…

Why wouldn't a country mean little to someone, even if it is a democracy? I live in the United States, and any theoretical vote I give is completely worthless unless I would move to Maine, and even then it's still not worth much. I move out of the United States, my vote is still worthless. I get citizenship elsewhere, my vote might have a chance at value. The United States doesn't actually do much for its citizens; i…

I've always wondered how people in the green card immigration queue, sometimes estimated to take 20 years until their turn, feel when they read someone like you failing to value the country they live in at all.
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