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On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

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Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#131

Post by _g5q8 »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #48
Hamuko wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pay almost $1000 per year to an accountant to fill out the forms—more and lengthier than they’d be if I lived in the US—only to prove I owe nothing, since I pay taxes here in the Netherlands. Apparently she wasn't paying taxes (to the US) anyways.

Then I'm even less clear on what her issues were. Somehow this is reminding me of that girl that took $350,000 in debt to get a Theater Management degree from Duke University and then blogged about how criminal the American higher education system is and how she was running off to Russia with her husband to escape the crippling debt. It's like, you took almost half a mil in debt to go to a PRIVATE SCHOOL to get a deg…

Paying $1,000 a year to file a form that says you don't owe taxes doesn't seem like a problem to you?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#132

Post by _g5q8 »

cr1895 wrote: post #124
colechristensen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other reason to renounce your citizenship other than paperwork? Or taxes if you make a lot of money?

It’s a lot more than complicated taxes and paperwork. If you are a “US Person” you may find it impossible to invest, or deal with certain financial institutions and products at all. I live in the Netherlands. I will face restrictions with my earned pension compared to non-US persons. I am forbidden to use stock trading services like DeGiro. I am not allowed to buy or sell Bitcoin. Just some examples…read the T&Cs of…

>If you are a “US Person” you may find it impossible to invest, or deal with certain financial institutions and products at all.

That's literally taxes and paperwork... indirectly, of course, but all the same.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#133

Post by arcticbull »

voisin wrote: post #16

The conversation here at this moment seems to be focused solely on whether or not it is complicated or costly to keep filing US taxes. This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live. The only other country to do so is Eritrea and the US has routinely criticized them for doing so. Moreover, it makes expats ineligible for c…

There's a ton of related frictions too, FATCA makes it impossible for US persons (including citizens) to open a bank account in a many foreign countries, especially European ones. SEC regulations preclude Americans from opening foreign brokerage accounts. Any aggregate bank account balances over $10,000USD at any time in the calendar year requires filing with FinCEN - [edit] and failure to do so may result in forfeiture of up to 50% of the balance of said accounts.

Starting a business while abroad is especially painful as you are the beneficial owner of a controlled foreign corporation, and the tax reporting there is its own special hellscape.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#134

Post by LadyCailin »

throw63738 wrote: post #72
voisin wrote: post #16

The conversation here at this moment seems to be focused solely on whether or not it is complicated or costly to keep filing US taxes. This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live. The only other country to do so is Eritrea and the US has routinely criticized them for doing so. Moreover, it makes expats ineligible for c…

》This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live Not really. Norway does that for 3 years after leaving. Australia is very opinionated and may not allow people to change tax residency, even after physically moving out...

There’s no if ands or buts for the US citizen though, other than the normal ones like making less than $10k a year or whatever.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#135

Post by jfk13 »

Svip wrote: post #8
faut_reflechir wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the tax forms myself when living abroad, precisely because I didn't earn enough income to afford the $1000 cost (in fact, it was perhaps twice this, in Switzerland, based on my cursory Googling at the time). It routinely took over a week of working days, which was only possible because I had a sympathetic boss and generous vacation time. It's also quite stressful, since there are many ambiguous questions, most…

What are the consequences to not filing? My wife is a US citizen, and she hasn't filed for two years. I've met other US citizens that don't file either. So far I have not heard of any issues relating to not filing.

Does she earn much? If her income is low enough, she may be exempt from filing.

https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/income/other-income/how-m...

(Note that I am not a tax professional and you should not rely on anything I say.)

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#136

Post by _g5q8 »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #116
sanedigital wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here. I’m a bit confused as to why you’d feel the need to share your opinion on a topic where you’re very clearly not well informed. As an American expat for five years, I can assure you her complaints are accurate. 1. Not remotely the same. As a resident of a particular state, your senators and congresspeople are certainly looking out for…

> It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here Im NOT! I'm trying to understand it. It appears that she's giving up her citizenship so she doesn't have to use a VPN and has a better selection of banks and to avoid paying $1000 a year? Seems like a citizenship is worth WAY more than that! Something doesn't add up here! Or do people with a lot of money just have a lot less toleranc…

You can't open a bank account with just a VPN. You also need an address in the US. And even if you do, how do you get money into that account? Do you think your employer in the Netherlands would match your 401(k) deposits?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#137

Post by dgellow »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #50

I'm amused by her complaint that overseas Americans' votes are few and far between and thus she doesn't feel represented combined with her "no taxation without representation" quip. Just because you don't belong to a group that has enough power to force the changes YOU want doesn't mean that you aren't being represented. I have no idea why any single person would expect to have a disproportionate amount of power simp…

As a Swiss citizen living abroad I can participate in Swiss votations and I am represented by the Council of Swiss Abroad: https://www.swisscommunity.org/en/voting-co-determination/th....

That makes sense to me that expatriates have some level of representation to defend their interests.

And of course I only have to pay taxes in the country where I live. US citizens living abroad seem to have it way more difficult than we do.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#138

Post by Scoundreller »

welder wrote: post #105
gumby wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why you might be downvoted, but it's extremely unlikely you'll end up owing more than 100%. I'm not an accountant but having filed multi-jurisdiction tax returns myself I don't see a mechanism by which this could happen.

I edited my comment, since 70% tax rate is actually possible depending on the tax rate of the country you're living and whether they have a tax treaty with the US or not.

You’d still be able to credit foreign taxes paid against any US tax owing, on income anyway, treaty or not.

Where you get screwed is when countries have different philosophies on things. E.g. Canada doesn’t tax gains on your home, but you can’t write off mortgage interest on your taxes. Meanwhile USA taxes gains on your home but lets you deduct mortgage interest.

If you’re a dual citizen living in Canada, you pay both.

Or if you live in a country with predominantly sales taxes and no income taxes, well, now you get to pay lots of sales taxes and US income taxes.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#139

Post by bingohbangoh »

voisin wrote: post #16

The conversation here at this moment seems to be focused solely on whether or not it is complicated or costly to keep filing US taxes. This misses the point in that the US is the _only_ developed country to impose worldwide taxation on its citizens regardless of where they live. The only other country to do so is Eritrea and the US has routinely criticized them for doing so. Moreover, it makes expats ineligible for c…

I've always thought it was something like a middle finger to americans who leave.

"You're not part of this project, get out and stay out." There was a bill in the 1990s to permanently ban any Americans who renounce from coming back, which is hardcore.

But we're also a country that to war over a few states leaving. Whatever the reasons, it was equally hardcore to sacrifice so many to stop it. Maybe an intense dislike of people leaving is embedded in our blood.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#140

Post by smnrchrds »

capitainenemo wrote: post #88
cletus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with the spirit of what you're saying. This is a burden for expat US citizens. A few notes and corrections though: > Moreover, it makes expats ineligible for certain retirement savings in their country of domicile (as the US does not recognize pre-tax deductions for these investments, like those countries do not recognize investments in 401k’s). This is true but unrelated to taxing worldwide income.…

The US seems to be in 18th place worldwide along with France, Malta, Czech Republic, Greece, Poland, Hungary, United Kingdom, Canada. Based on https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php

The ratings are skewed because of COVID-19 related travel restrictions. Looking at the rankings in late 2019, US passport had an equal or higher rank than all but 5 countries.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191128002117/https://www.passp...

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