Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program • Hacker News Board

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#61

Post by knaik94 » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:08 AM UTC

jasonhansel wrote: post #53

A thorough debunking of this protocol from The Lancet: https://sci-hub.se/downloads/2020-04-23/63/10.1016@S1474-442... A few quotes: > Despite the certainty inferred by the book’s subtitle, there is no published study that tests or proves the hypothesis that the Bredesen protocol can prevent and reverse cognitive decline. > Readers are informed that participants with subjective cognitive impairment or mild cognitive…

While I appreciate the sci-hub link, the author manuscript can also be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7377549/ which I think should be encouraged over sci-hub. I love sci-hub and understands its necessity but my cursory look through saw now difference in text or tables provided.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#62

Post by tuomasb » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:09 AM UTC

abdel_nasser wrote: post #60

in patient one they list fasting for extended periods of time and also "MCT effects" which refers to the administration of MCT oil. so in other words, this is a very convoluted way of doing what the ketogenic diet does. the fact that the ketogenic diet can reverse alzheimers in part or in full has been well established by Dr. Mary Newport. as well as it can be without support from the mainstream medical establishment…

>they refuse to conduct proper studies on it out of sheer stupidity and stubbornness

Not stupidity and stubbornness. There is exactly zero money to be made from fasting. Much better to try to make some miracle compound and sell it for $50 per pill and bill it from insurers.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#63

Post by varelse » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:13 AM UTC

easytiger wrote: post #44

varelse wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you're telling me is that eating healthy, getting enough sleep and exercising can halt or reverse Alzheimer's it's not going to exactly shock me. The real fad is how amazingly stupid Americans are about their own health.

I come from a family with Alzheimer's running through it like clockwork. I have some uncles who tried to live the right lifestyle. It didn't help. If anything in my observations it made things worse. Though it's a meaningless sample size.

My own mom has it right now. It's a godawful disease but her choices are equally godawful and they are getting monotonically worse with her decline. Her brother got it too and died horribly. Her other brother became a health not late in life and did not succumb to dementia but rather died of natural causes around 90 a happy and content soul. So I guess in both instances here we are both anecdotal single data points. But I think we can agree this is a horrible disease.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#64

Post by artfulhippo » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:25 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #49

nostrebored wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American culture is staggeringly unhealthy. Denying this is impossible.

I think it is pretty easy to deny. The CDC breaks out obesity by demographics[1]. White adults have an obesity rate of ~29%. This is the same as other predominantly white/Anglo countries like Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom[2]. Maybe 29% is staggeringly unhealthy, but it isn't American culture to be that overweight. Being overweight is fairly widespread and not unique to America. Probably it has more to do…

You may want to edit this comment. It reads as though you don't think Hispanics or Blacks count as American. I don't think you intend to express this racist sentiment, but it's easily inferred from the text as written.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#65

Post by nostrebored » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #50

nostrebored wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely biased by living in the southern hemisphere for almost half a decade. The places I've lived are visibly healthier than the US. People have less chronic health problems, take fewer sick days, etc.

I imagine a lot of that depends on where in the US you go. I live in an area that is statistically similar to Europe. If your idea of the US is south and east, it will be considerably different.

I've lived in major cities in the southeast and the west coast. The west coast of the US is still extremely unhealthy.

Learning how unhealthy the culture I grew up in is has been a gradual process. Shock moving to the west coast, and then shock at each of the subsequent moves around other parts of the world.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#66

Post by nostrebored » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:36 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #49

nostrebored wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American culture is staggeringly unhealthy. Denying this is impossible.

I think it is pretty easy to deny. The CDC breaks out obesity by demographics[1]. White adults have an obesity rate of ~29%. This is the same as other predominantly white/Anglo countries like Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom[2]. Maybe 29% is staggeringly unhealthy, but it isn't American culture to be that overweight. Being overweight is fairly widespread and not unique to America. Probably it has more to do…

You've linked me a list that shows the US nearly in the top 5% of the world for obesity and claimed that we're not unhealthy. Also the implication that white people are somehow genetically predisposed to obesity is strange, with plenty of countries existing as counterexamples.

You've listed the obesity rate, not the rate of people who are overweight. Beyond that, you haven't limited to adults. According to the CDC [1]:

Percent of adults aged 20 and over with obesity: 42.5% (2017-2018)

Percent of adults aged 20 and over with overweight, including obesity: 73.6% (2017-2018)

It absolutely has to do with lifestyle. America is one of the cultures most reliant on cars in the developed world. Physical activity is also ridiculously low. The problem is there's no way to reliably measure physical activity across countries. There's just survey data, and people in the US know they _should_ exercise.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#67

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

varelse wrote: post #10

wawayanda wrote: post #6

Maybe I'm a cynic but it strains credulity that the miracle cure is also a laundry list of fad health trends from the the last decade. Gluten free, intermittent fasting, yoga, melatonin, probiotics, etc etc

If what you're telling me is that eating healthy, getting enough sleep and exercising can halt or reverse Alzheimer's it's not going to exactly shock me. The real fad is how amazingly stupid Americans are about their own health.

[deleted]

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#68

Post by krrrh » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:53 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

sradu wrote: post #41

I've done a bit of research here. It's not snake oil. They did a trial, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.10.21256982v... , and it worked very well. It's being commercialized here: https://www.apollohealthco.com/ , and the guy has patents on everything.

"They did a trial, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.10.21256982v ..., and it worked very well." Only 25 patients, not double-blind, no controls.

The protocol is mostly lifestyle changes, there’s no meaningful way it could be double-blind. It has to be compared to standard of care outcomes.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#69

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

tuomasb wrote: post #62

abdel_nasser wrote: post #60

in patient one they list fasting for extended periods of time and also "MCT effects" which refers to the administration of MCT oil. so in other words, this is a very convoluted way of doing what the ketogenic diet does. the fact that the ketogenic diet can reverse alzheimers in part or in full has been well established by Dr. Mary Newport. as well as it can be without support from the mainstream medical establishment…

>they refuse to conduct proper studies on it out of sheer stupidity and stubbornness Not stupidity and stubbornness. There is exactly zero money to be made from fasting. Much better to try to make some miracle compound and sell it for $50 per pill and bill it from insurers.

[deleted]

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#70

Post by ALittleLight » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 4:07 AM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #66

ALittleLight wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is pretty easy to deny. The CDC breaks out obesity by demographics[1]. White adults have an obesity rate of ~29%. This is the same as other predominantly white/Anglo countries like Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom[2]. Maybe 29% is staggeringly unhealthy, but it isn't American culture to be that overweight. Being overweight is fairly widespread and not unique to America. Probably it has more to do…

You've linked me a list that shows the US nearly in the top 5% of the world for obesity and claimed that we're not unhealthy. Also the implication that white people are somehow genetically predisposed to obesity is strange, with plenty of countries existing as counterexamples. You've listed the obesity rate, not the rate of people who are overweight. Beyond that, you haven't limited to adults. According to the CDC [1…

I think you are misunderstanding most, if not all, of what I wrote.

I never claimed that we weren't unhealthy but that being unhealthy isn't "American culture" as evidenced by different demographics in America having markedly different obesity rates. The obesity rates are similar among similar demographic groups in different countries - e.g. white people in the US have similar obesity rates as UK, Canada, and Australia. It's very weird to say that this thing that is constant among demographic groups across countries is dependent on the culture of one country. Especially when it is different among demographic groups in the same country.

I am not implying that white people are genetically predisposed to obesity. Actually, what I wrote is the exact opposite. I suggested the obesity rates were due to environmental factors and, crucially, I pointed out that other racial groups have greater obesity rates. So, I explicitly stated I believed the difference was not genetic and that white people have less obesity in the US than non-white.

For the other points you seem to prefer using a different metric, overweight instead of obesity. You haven't said why that factor is more relevant or how it changes what I wrote above.