Is going to the office a broken way of working? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#331

Post by dvsfish » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:04 AM UTC

kaczordon wrote: post #295

magicalist wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "theory" being referred to is > it had nothing to do with regular people eating at restaurants and everything to do with the protocol at those specific places Also if we're going to be pedantic, we should be consistently pedantic: > 50% of all COVID deaths were in nursing homes that article actually says under 50% and it's from December 2020.

Nothing in this comment contradicts what I've said, majority of deaths were at nursing homes and better protocols would've helped them. Still haven't addressed my point about Belgium having more restrictive lockdowns and a higher excess mortality. I guess being pedantic is easier.

You can't both be pedantic and then attack the other person for being pedantic and expect to get anywhere. Also "Just under half" is not a majority, which is actually an important distinction considering the angle your argument takes (that is - downplaying the impact on other demographics).

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#332

Post by bluekite2000 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:05 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #46

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

I think you're correct, but one thing that is really missing nowadays, especially with phones and the internet, is active communities that exist in real life outside of work. Stuff like the elks lodge, rotary, bowling leagues, etc are just not as common anymore as I believe they used to be. Certainly there are many things that exist, but in a way societally it seems like they don't have very much cache, even as far a…

Also wanted to add in developed countries (and by corollary, big cities) it is very hard to make friends once you are an adult. When I lived in Vietnam it is 10x easier to date/make friends/get involved in the local community (vs NYC,LA or SF)

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#333

Post by mariavillosa1 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

magicalist wrote: post #225

ipaddr wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/05/8993658... This is what it looked like after the first wave. Belgium was the leader worldwide by large numbers. Sweden was 5th. Fast forward to today: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rate... Sweden is now ranked at 45. Better than Italy, UK, Spain, France which are better countries to compare Sweden against. Sweden is the hub of Northern Eur…

Notably Sweden introduced a number of restrictions after that first wave. For instance, GGP is right that restaurants weren't closed down...but they couldn't be full, your party had to be small, and you wouldn't be there at night.

>but they couldn't be full, your party had to be small, and you wouldn't be there at night.

Ah yes, the craziest restriction of all, restricting things from being open at night. That way, everyone goes at the same time increasing crowding. But since less people are allowed in, everyone crowds around waiting to get in.

So now a place that would have 1 person an hour over 10 hours, instead has 2 people an hour over 5 hours, eg. Does the virus not spread at night or something? I'd think it would make more sense to mandate businesses open more hours, that way people are dispersed across more time and thus less crowded.

I don't understand, there must be an obvious reason I'm missing though (most likely!)

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#334

Post by Dumblydorr » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:46 AM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

You moved to NYC right before the lockdowns, before the huge initial outbreak, it's safe to say that living in a tiny NYC apartment is supposed to have compensation in the lifestyle of NYC. I'd be depressed if my location's main attraction got destroyed by the pandemic.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#335

Post by nine_zeros » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:56 AM UTC

lamontcg wrote: post #184

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Sounds like the problem is that our social involvement outside of work is totally broken and we make our lives revolve around our work, and think that's entirely normal.

This is the truth. We are asking our work life to substitute for our lack of family of social life. Younger generations are losing their social skills faster than they realize.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#336

Post by mdekkers » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 4:00 AM UTC

gaoshan wrote: post #100

I genuinely miss the office. Being in a different space for work (one that was pretty gorgeous), in a nice part of downtown, able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat, more spontaneous collaboration (right before we went remote again I overheard two people discussing an area I have some expertise in and was able to interject and provide useful insight), extra pro…

> able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat

The ability for me to switch of chat/email and just get stuff done, without people tapping on my shoulder or standing next to me because they want something is one of the key reasons why I have been working from home for the past 10 years. I’ll come to the office for a week or two every 8 weeks or so, and that’s it. My productivity takes an insane nosedive in the office, simply because open-plan, interruptions and distractions.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#337

Post by fartcannon » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 4:02 AM UTC

Maybe I'm unique, but I'm perfectly capable of making and maintaining deep connections with people I've never met in real life via channels as small as chat relays. I always assumed anyone who grew up with the internet has the same ability, but perhaps not?

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#338

Post by jdavis703 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 4:06 AM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #326

ethbr0 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the larger lodges (Loyal Order of Moose, Modern Woodmen of America, Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks) were explicitly sexist (male only) and racist (white only). Although some operated female-open auxiliary organizations. Freemasonry is interesting, in that it actually had a schism in part over exclusionary membership clauses around 1877 (Regular vs Continental). Although apparently, masonry itself for…

There are good reasons for male-only organizations as well, mainly to do with having something private of their own that men can bring back to their marriages and homes. It provides a social support network for men (literal fraternity), and by extension, their families, where men are not left dependent on their wives for managing their social lives, as is common in many marriages. The lodges still provide a fabric fo…

> There are good reasons for male-only organizations as well, mainly to do with having something private of their own that men can bring back to their marriages and homes.

Why must this be male only to be private?

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#339

Post by mdekkers » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 4:06 AM UTC

fullshark wrote: post #105

jedberg wrote: post #11

My friend runs a company that is remote first in the way described here. They have employees all over the world, but they all get together at some random place on the planet (pre-covid) about once every two months. The employees love it because of all the free trips around the world (and often tie their vacation to the beginning or end of a meeting so they can explore that place on their own) and it's great for the c…

Being forced to travel somewhere random on the planet every two months for work and live out of a hotel room sounds terrible frankly. The company would have to spend lavishly and find exotic / fun locations I think otherwise I'd resent it and quit. Ultimately the ideal is not a one size fits all solution but different companies developing different cultures remote/hybrid/in person strategies and employees having opti…

> The company would have to spend lavishly and find exotic / fun locations.

Which they can afford because they are not spending on office space.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#340

Post by smoe » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #76

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective is actually very common: Working from home isn't for everyone and we should stop pretending like it's the only way to work. A lot of people dislike remote work. Many people like remote work but can't handle it for various reasons. Internet forums like HN will always overrepresent preferences for remote work because they're biased toward people who enjoy socializing over the internet. Most people don'…

I don’t think there is any need to defend in person work. Until very recently it was the only socially accepted form of work. As the default, we all have a little experience in it.

I think there is a difference between defending in person work, and defending going back to exactly how it was before.

I'm back to the office most days of the week although I don't have to. Big difference being that there are no longer implicit or explicit expectations what hours of the day one is there, I can just stay at home to work on something or wait for a delivery, due to only a part of staff being there any given day it is more spacious and pretty much as quiet as at home, etc.

I actually have a separate room in my apartment I could convert into an office, but I don't want to, since I would have zero use for it outside work hours and prefer to use it for things I actually want to do at home. Sure I could move out of the big, expensive city into a more spacious home, but then I wouldn't live where I want to live.

I don't think there needs or should be a default, and I don't want to go back. Companies should just choose whatever model of working they prefer and see what talent they can attract. Maybe in person work becomes niche. That's fine for me. But i'm honestly getting a bit tired of the "why would you want to socialize with co-workers, don't you have real friends?", you now often get if you mention you personally favor a hybrid model.