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Is going to the office a broken way of working?

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Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#181

Post by idiotsecant »

stefs wrote: post #156
mmmpop wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

vaccinated people may carry the virus, but they're a lot less infectious than un-vaccinated.

While getting vaccinated is a massively good idea both for the individual and society it does appear to be the case that people who are vaccinated or were diseased and recovered and have antibodies that way that are exposed to delta virus can nonetheless develop high viral loads, high enough to be contagious to people who are not immune. It does appear that in vaccinated or otherwise immune people the viral load drops very quickly.

So it's not quite as simple as people with an axe to grind will claim it is, but it is possible for a vaccinated person to briefly have the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. The duration of that dangerous period is much shorter when vaccinated, and of course the risk to the vaccinated person is much, much lower.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#182

Post by ethbr0 »

ironman1478 wrote: post #171
taurath wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're correct, but one thing that is really missing nowadays, especially with phones and the internet, is active communities that exist in real life outside of work. Stuff like the elks lodge, rotary, bowling leagues, etc are just not as common anymore as I believe they used to be. Certainly there are many things that exist, but in a way societally it seems like they don't have very much cache, even as far a…

There is a book on this topic called "bowling alone" if you are interested. These observations are ones people were making pre-covid.

I was going to recommend that as well. Am in the process of reading it, after a previous recommendation on HN. Or as the previous commenter quipped to a similar question 'Yes, Robert Putnam identified all these trends by the 80s and 90s, but nobody liked how gloomy he was about it.'

Link: https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Commu...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#184

Post by lamontcg »

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Sounds like the problem is that our social involvement outside of work is totally broken and we make our lives revolve around our work, and think that's entirely normal.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#185

Post by marcusverus »

KronisLV wrote: post #155
marcusverus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone is going to pay for that increased efficiency--either your Employer will pay in dollars, or you will pay some opportunity cost. Why should you pay? After all, there are plenty of things that you could do in your spare time that would make you a more efficient employee. But you wouldn't let your employer tell you to work unpaid for an hour each Monday, preparing for the week. Nor would you let them require tha…

> Nor would you let them require that you spend an unpaid hour of your free time reading or doing professional development each week. Depending on how you look at things, this may or may not be necessary to be done on your own accord in your free time to avoid your skills getting dated and irrelevant. Essentially, you do have to keep up with at least some of the new developments within the industry to remain employab…

We're in total agreement--that was probably not a great example.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#186

Post by raisedbyninjas »

Ancalagon wrote: post #59
taurath wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're correct, but one thing that is really missing nowadays, especially with phones and the internet, is active communities that exist in real life outside of work. Stuff like the elks lodge, rotary, bowling leagues, etc are just not as common anymore as I believe they used to be. Certainly there are many things that exist, but in a way societally it seems like they don't have very much cache, even as far a…

This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like a normal person in a year). It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

We've been staying home for well over a year now. Virtually all shopping is delivered and have eaten at a restaraunt once I think. Our work as had one outdoor happy hour that I would have gone to, except for non-pandemic issues. I've been blown away at the recent movie box office ticket sales. Maybe the covid blasé people are going out 50% more often than they did pre-pandemic.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#187

Post by dave78 »

jstx1 wrote: post #93
dave78 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so wrong with letting every employee make their own choice? Then, after 6 months or a year or whatever (to get everyone a chance to get used to it and be confident in their selection), survey everyone to find out who wants to keep working from home. Those that don't - allocate them a desk in an office. Add some additional hoteling desks for travelers or normal WFHers who need to visit, and then adjust the size…

> What's so wrong with letting every employee make their own choice? You're inevitably forcing your colleagues into your own way of working to some extent. Imagine a team of 6 people working on the same product: If 1 is in office and 5 are remote, then the benefits of the office are largely lost even for the 1 person. That 1 person is still working in a remote model just from a different location which happens to be…

Maybe I'm just used to it already. My team has employees in several different states (due to having offices there through a series of old acquisitions), as well as contractors both in South America and Eastern Europe. So, even before COVID, our meetings were already online-centric.

In fact I started working remote full time because after our company moved us to a fancy new open-office floorplan in the city my commute went from 20 mins to 75 and I realized I was wasting all that time just to be on virtual meetings in the office, so I stopped going in. Even when we were all in the office, meetings tended to be online anyway because the company did not build nearly enough conference rooms.

Having an online-first culture even before COVID never seemed to be a big problem for us. Obviously YMMV.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#188

Post by rootusrootus »

onion2k wrote: post #135
Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

... has pre-existing families/friends to socialize with. It's easy to believe the people you work with are friends to socialize with, but the reality is that most people cut ties with their coworkers as soon as they change job, especially early in your career when you're hopping from one job to another every few years. Those people are temporary friends at best. I recommend doing everything you can to cultivate frien…

> I recommend doing everything you can to cultivate friendships outside of work.

More than half of all my friends outside the office started out as coworkers in the past. And the remainder are almost exclusively people that I met as a result of social activities with these 'original' friends.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#189

Post by ghaff »

taurath wrote: post #46
Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

I think you're correct, but one thing that is really missing nowadays, especially with phones and the internet, is active communities that exist in real life outside of work. Stuff like the elks lodge, rotary, bowling leagues, etc are just not as common anymore as I believe they used to be. Certainly there are many things that exist, but in a way societally it seems like they don't have very much cache, even as far a…

They exist. They're just not your almost stereotypical, mostly working class, traditional organizations.

Depending upon age and interests, at least larger cities have options and, as you get involved, more options get opened up.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#190

Post by gaoshan »

zmmmmm wrote: post #173
gaoshan wrote: post #100

I genuinely miss the office. Being in a different space for work (one that was pretty gorgeous), in a nice part of downtown, able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat, more spontaneous collaboration (right before we went remote again I overheard two people discussing an area I have some expertise in and was able to interject and provide useful insight), extra pro…

I get a lot of what you say but this one drives me bonkers: > able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat My work requires so much focus, having people randomly tap me on the shoulder to ask a question they could just drop in chat is debilitating. I'm curious you phrase "having to ping them over chat" negatively? I would say the same sentence almost totally in reve…

Our work is very collaborative and being able to get quick feedback on some issue is nice.

Having to ping them over chat is annoying because while it may result in a quick answer it may also just disappear into the ether (or the chat app fails to deliver, the person steps away but you don't know this, etc.).

Again, our work is collaborative and if someone wants to be left alone they throw on headphones in which case everyone knows to just ping them over chat so they can respond whenever is convenient for them.

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