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Is going to the office a broken way of working?

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Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#281

Post by magicalist »

kaczordon wrote: post #256
smt88 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your theory about the deaths being in nursing homes were true, we wouldn't have seen excess deaths in 2020 in age groups under 75. That was not the case[1]. Even 50-year-olds in Sweden had a spike of deaths in 2020. Norwegians were locked down and seem to be fine. They're not dead, at least. 1. https://academic.oup.com/eurpub/article/31/1/17/5968985

It's not a theory , 50% of all COVID deaths were in nursing homes: https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-co... Also the paper you linked agrees with me, The highest age groups, i.e. ages 80 and above, were most strongly affected by the pandemic.

I think the "theory" being referred to is

> it had nothing to do with regular people eating at restaurants and everything to do with the protocol at those specific places

Also if we're going to be pedantic, we should be consistently pedantic:

> 50% of all COVID deaths were in nursing homes

that article actually says under 50% and it's from December 2020.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#282

Post by cableshaft »

BoorishBears wrote: post #112
ugh123 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought thats what Meetup was about, for both tech and non-tech communities. I haven't been involved for a while due to life changes (kids + relo), so not sure if its as vibrant in some cities as it used to be.

I literally never saw a Meetup group last for more than a year. The closest thing to an exception was a group that existed a decade then happened to get a Meetup for convenience, and they closed within a year of getting on (for unrelated reasons)

We kept one going for five years in the local region. Had about 50-ish people to certain events at its peak, probably a few hundred active members (including inactive it was over 1300). But paying $180/year didn't feel worth it as soon as the pandemic hit. I was the main one paying it also.

Kind of shitty too because you can't really kill a Meetup group as long as someone is willing to pay for it. I stepped down as admin and some speed dating thing swooped in and started paying for it, so now the page is still up but there's only speed dating events on it now.

I think Meetup has almost doubled in price in the past 5 years, and it's gotten some major competition from Facebook's groups and events, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's on the decline. I don't think I'd bother to create a Meetup group nowadays, just create a Facebook group.

I do still use it to find some online events to attend periodically, though. Still haven't done any events with random people in person yet, just friends I know are vaccinated.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#283

Post by jrockway »

dogman144 wrote: post #142
jrockway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always enjoyed the after-work drinking events. Lots of people there that I would never call up and ask "hey want to go to the bar?" but still enjoyed hanging out with. I guess it's not work's job to be your social life, and these after-work events exclude people with families or that don't like alcohol from valuable interactions... but ignoring the global effect, I personally enjoyed them. Now that everyone is remo…

Definitely makes sense. A response I can offer you is this, And it’s loaded with empathy because I def get that people derived real fun from it. A lot of people attended those after-hour drinks as the semi-mandatory things they are, either for career survival or career acceleration reasons. This was always a large background narrative, and the death of it as of now is a nice thing. I’d take quarterly team dinners and…

I totally understand that. I think we've made the world a little bit more fair for everyone by forcing people to schedule a 30 minute meeting during work hours to just chat or play games or whatever. No screwing up the commute, no forcing people to drink intoxicating substances, etc. Definitely net better.

But, I personally enjoyed people being forced to socialize with me ;)

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#284

Post by School-Cotton »

mrtranscendence wrote: post #64
Grimm1 wrote: post #25

Not going back to the office seems pretty split around age lines to me. Most people in their mid thirties and up want to keep WFH full time. Early thirties is a mix, and then all the ways down from there seems like they want to be back in the office. Of course this isn’t a hard rule but continues to be my observation across a few workplaces and from friends and acquaintances.

I'm forty, and for what it's worth I'd be more than happy going back to the office if I had a short commute. But the drive home can take as much as 1.5hrs depending on traffic, and it was a little soul crushing. I've had so much more time since going remote. Maybe younger folks are more likely to live closer to their work? Haven't looked into it at all, though.

I agree with your speculation in the last paragraph — I think this is at least partly due to the age difference. Younger people are more likely to be able to move on a whim and therefore set up their life such that they don’t have a 1.5-hr commute.

I’m about a 20 minute commute from the office (Downtown Brooklyn to Astor Place). I can’t fathom living somewhere where I had to drive to work, let alone for longer than an hour.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#285

Post by sharken »

baud147258 wrote: post #258
IggleSniggle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes. If not "everyone," certainly lots and lots of folks are just staying home whenever possible. Because we are in the middle of a global pandemic. I think this has much more to do with "we are in a global pandemic" than "you can't meet people doing remote work." Certainly, there were a number of larger groups that I used to hang out with consistently pre-pandemic, but now have totally abandoned. I'm not inter…

> Because we are in the middle of a global pandemic. Really? Maybe I forgot because here in France it feels like we've kinda gone back to business as usual, as long as one can show proof of vaccination (necessary if you want to go to the restaurants, cinemas and museums).

France, Germany and Italy have really disappointed with their heavyhanded approach against those that are not vaccinated.

With that said, i think many are still a bit cautious after being bombarded with warnings of the Coronavirus for 12 months straight.

To me though I'm back to normality and slowly but surely everyone else.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#286

Post by brailsafe »

jimmaswell wrote: post #278
IggleSniggle wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, if you're not vaccinated, it's really a lot less safe for you for me to be around you. I don't really want to be responsible for getting you or your family sick. But beyond that, if I can't trust you to take very basic precaution of vaccinating, can I trust you to take the much more obnoxious precaution of masking up, or the still more inconvenient precaution of social distancing generally? Or quarantining…

> masking up, or the still more inconvenient precaution of social distancing generally? Or quarantining after travel? Why would I still be doing any of that when I'm vaccinated and no longer required?

It is still required in many places regardless of vacc status.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#287

Post by soylentnewsorg »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #261
soylentnewsorg wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing though: you should not socialize with anyone at the office. The healthiest thing anyone can do for their career is to not mix work and friends. Once you're friends, you're sharing political opinions, life stories, and religious views. People pick up on that, and while you might be pleasing one guy, you're pissing off someone else. No matter your stance on something, you're going to be pissing off som…

To each their own, but to be honest I'm always baffled, and quite saddened, by this "don't make friends at work" "advice". I've made many, many friends at work, and this near-paranoia level of "you might be pissing off someone else" - so what? I don't need, or want, to be friends with everyone, and I'm quite fine if some people don't like me.

Because you're at work to have a good career and get paid.

>so what so they talk behind your back, and that's not good for a work environment. so if any of them are in management, they will impede your career. so eventually when one of those guys you pissed off has a couple of beers too many at a company outing, he is going to talk office-inappropriate crap, and despite what you might think that is bad not just for him, but for you as well.

>I'm quite fine if some people don't like me they're not "some people." they are coworkers, and by adding a personal relationship, you are impeding the work you're there to do. if you're not there for work, why not be at a baseball game, and why bother negotiating for a salary? you know who is not fine if some people at the office don't like you, because of a reason You provided to them? everyone above you in your org chart.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#288

Post by mitchdoogle »

raisedbyninjas wrote: post #186
Ancalagon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like a normal person in a year). It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

We've been staying home for well over a year now. Virtually all shopping is delivered and have eaten at a restaraunt once I think. Our work as had one outdoor happy hour that I would have gone to, except for non-pandemic issues. I've been blown away at the recent movie box office ticket sales. Maybe the covid blasé people are going out 50% more often than they did pre-pandemic.

Are you vaccinated? Everyone who I know got vaccinated and basically started living their lives normally again as much as possible, wearing masks indoors in crowds and maskless outdoors. Several have now gone overseas to Europe

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#289

Post by baud147258 »

sharken wrote: post #285
baud147258 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because we are in the middle of a global pandemic. Really? Maybe I forgot because here in France it feels like we've kinda gone back to business as usual, as long as one can show proof of vaccination (necessary if you want to go to the restaurants, cinemas and museums).

France, Germany and Italy have really disappointed with their heavyhanded approach against those that are not vaccinated. With that said, i think many are still a bit cautious after being bombarded with warnings of the Coronavirus for 12 months straight. To me though I'm back to normality and slowly but surely everyone else.

> France has really disappointed with their heavyhanded approach against those that are not vaccinated.

well, the only reason I got vaccinated was to be able to go to the restaurant without having to do a covid test beforehand; so maybe the heavyhandeness was warranted?

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#290

Post by soylentnewsorg »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #251
soylentnewsorg wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing though: you should not socialize with anyone at the office. The healthiest thing anyone can do for their career is to not mix work and friends. Once you're friends, you're sharing political opinions, life stories, and religious views. People pick up on that, and while you might be pleasing one guy, you're pissing off someone else. No matter your stance on something, you're going to be pissing off som…

I think this made more sense in the past when people were holding onto a job for 15 years or maybe jobs in which you won't be able to find an alternative. Nowadays, jobs in tech rarely last more than 4 years and the worst that can happen is that you get a salary increase and change job. I wouldn't skip on work socialisation just out of fear. It's a nice perk to have.

lol "worst that can happen from socializing with coworkers is you'll have to get a different job"

right. the worst that can happen if I take a nice fat dump into my dinner plate is I'll have to get a new dinner plate.

it's not fear. it's being at work to do work and get paid being the number one reason to even bother working. and if you're not there to work, why not be at a rock concert instead. with some friends.

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