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Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

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Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#541

Post by ryandrake »

himinlomax wrote: post #353
downandout wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most likely explanation is here [1]. Pilots (and apparently some air traffic controllers) are doing a sickout to protest vaccine mandates, presumably to make the powers that be understand just how difficult they can make things for the country if they proceed with intended mass firings. But the sickout is technically illegal, so nobody will acknowledge it. That is why you won't see a clear explanation of this inc…

I don't find pilots refusing vaccines in significant numbers plausible in the slightest. Airline pilots have to comply with plenty of regulations and they're continuously trained to comply with safety regulations. Thus you don't become a pilot or don't remain one for long if you're allergic to safety regulations. If there's one occupation where expert recommendations are respected, it's aviation, and for good reasons…

Not only that, but pilots must go through extensive medical examination in order to get their medical certificates, and for Airline Transport Pilots (ATP) they need to get them renewed every 6 or 12 months, depending on their age. They are entirely used to their medical status gating their employment!

Just make COVID-19 vaccination a requirement to pass your medical, and be done with all this hand-wringing.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#542

Post by dqpb »

smsm42 wrote: post #168
hnburnsy wrote: post #36

Comment from the Southwest Pilots Union... >SWA has claimed that the immediate causes of this weekend’s meltdown were staffing at Jacksonville Center and weather in the southeast U.S., but what was a minor temporary event for other carriers devastated Southwest Airlines because our operation has become brittle and subject to massive failures under the slightest pressure. Our operation and our frontline employees have…

> our operation has become brittle and subject to massive failures under the slightest pressure I somehow notice a lot of this lately, in many different areas. I wonder if there isn't a common cause behind those. Is it just covid or something bigger?

Think about how difficult systems engineering is. Then realize that everything is systems engineering. But, very few people making decisions are systems engineers.

Ad-hoc heuristic decision making + political in-fighting can get you off the ground, but it can't keep you reliably airborne.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#543

Post by mrandolph »

ceejayoz wrote: post #534
syshum wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society The child vaccine requirement analogy is flawed for at-least 3 reasons 1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can. 2. It only applies if attend a public school, pa…

> Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society For which vaccine was a year's safety record not sufficient to detect side effects? Which one needed a decade to discover side effects?

The anthrax vaccine was one, for example:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2002/11/gao-mili...

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#544

Post by mrandolph »

davedx wrote: post #309
rsanek wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any specific examples? What do you mean by 'clean up' exactly?

This comment tree for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28825105

What's false in that tree?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#545

Post by unethical_ban »

downandout wrote: post #540
unethical_ban wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccine mandates aren't new. You weren't protesting them 3 years ago, but now you are willing to take the side of 3.5 million members of the community slowly dying so you don't have to get a shot. Your persecution complex is out of control. The absurdity of peoples' accusations of world-ending authoritarianism and censorship is baffling.

Vaccine mandates aren't new. No. But mandating a brand new vaccine is new. We don’t know what the long term effects are. Nothing about COVID or the way in which tyrants around the world are using it to seize new powers is normal. People at the FDA are resigning left and right [1]. Nobody wants their name on this thing. [1] https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/anger-frustration-at...

Two people resigned: One went left, and one went right.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#546

Post by unethical_ban »

grillvogel wrote: post #531
unethical_ban wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccine mandates aren't new. You weren't protesting them 3 years ago, but now you are willing to take the side of 3.5 million members of the community slowly dying so you don't have to get a shot. Your persecution complex is out of control. The absurdity of peoples' accusations of world-ending authoritarianism and censorship is baffling.

which brand new rushed vaccine was being mandated 3 years ago?

How many years, and how many people have to die while going from 99% to 99.9% sure of a vaccine's safety, before you would say it's safe? In your professional opinion as an epidemiologist?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#547

Post by ceejayoz »

mrandolph wrote: post #543
ceejayoz wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society For which vaccine was a year's safety record not sufficient to detect side effects? Which one needed a decade to discover side effects?

The anthrax vaccine was one, for example: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2002/11/gao-mili...

No; the side effects of that vaccine did not take a decade to surface. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthrax_vaccine_adsorbed

> Rates of events that resulted in seeking medical advice or taking time off work were 7.9% after the first dose; 5.1% after the second dose; 3.0% after the third dose; and 3.1% after the fourth dose.

A decade of monitoring wasn't necessary to spot them; they were deemed fairly normal, and the vaccination program restarted.

I'm looking for an example of a vaccine where a year is not enough time for side effects to surface, that would justify the claimed need for a ten year study before being mandated.

> Although many individuals have expressed health concerns after receiving anthrax vaccine, a congressionally directed study by the Institute of Medicine (part of the National Academy of Sciences) concluded that this anthrax vaccine is as safe as other vaccines. The Academy considered more than a dozen studies using various scientific designs, and heard personally from many concerned US military service members.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#549

Post by shartacct »

grillvogel wrote: post #530
shartacct wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop crying and get vaccinated, or find a way to make money without endangering other people.

compelling argument

I don't see why an argument needs to be made for it? Being anti-vaccine is anti-public safety and an active attempt to undermine the stability of the country and society. It should be viewed as terroristic.
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