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Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

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Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#531

Post by grillvogel »

unethical_ban wrote: post #475
baumy wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the choice is between 3.5 million dead, and the rise of authoritarianism and censorship, then yes the former is much less tragic than the latter and therefore the more acceptable option. And that's before taking into account that the survival rate is quite a bit higher than 99%, so it won't be 3.5 million dead. And also before taking into account that the vast majority of the dead will be the very old, and people…

Vaccine mandates aren't new. You weren't protesting them 3 years ago, but now you are willing to take the side of 3.5 million members of the community slowly dying so you don't have to get a shot. Your persecution complex is out of control. The absurdity of peoples' accusations of world-ending authoritarianism and censorship is baffling.

which brand new rushed vaccine was being mandated 3 years ago?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#532

Post by grillvogel »

brandmeyer wrote: post #402
unionemployee wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pilots in the US are an extremely conservative bunch. On my pilot group's FB page, the number of times I've read "Let's go Brandon!" in response to this supposed sickout are numerous. Every trip I hear the far-right Breitbart, Newsmax media narrative, and links from similar pseudo news blog sites are posted all the time. It's impossible to fly to SFO or LAX without a comment on homelessness, taxes, liberals, etc. Onc…

> On my pilot group's FB page Social media has optimized the process of finding groups of people that think just exactly like you do. The fact that you are listening to one specific echo chamber that feels this way does not tell you that the entire industry feels this way. Consider the following counter-example: United Airlines also has a vaccine mandate, and got well over 99% compliance.

Well united airlines employees also once beat a man unconscious and dragged him out of an airplane to make room for more united employees. Maybe they hire a different sort of person there.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#533

Post by syshum »

nemothekid wrote: post #525
syshum wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society The child vaccine requirement analogy is flawed for at-least 3 reasons 1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can. 2. It only applies if attend a public school, pa…

> 1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can. So the government is allowed to be "your master, your parent, or king" of children but not for adults? Be consistent. > 2. It only applies if attend a public school, parents can opt out by sending their child to a religious school, private school, or home sc…

>>Why should the government tell me I'm not allowed to drive when I've had a couple beers?

You use this also has hyperbolic statement as if there is not arguments to abolish drunk driving laws[1], which often are abused by the police as a pretext for other actions they are barred from performing..

[1]https://reason.com/2010/12/31/abolish-drunk-driving-laws/

>>What's the argument here? If you don't want to get vaxxed, then don't use public resources. Not sure how this is a flawed argument

What are you considering public resources here? I am fine with an employer on their own requiring a mandate as a condition of employment, I am even fine with a business requiring vaccine before they provide services. I am not fine with government requiring these businesses to do this

Do you see the difference? I am not talking about "public resources" I am talking about the government interfering with private business transactions.

>>I'm sorry, you are right. I forgot that America was anarchist state.

Ohh I can only dream of that...

>>What's next? Will Biden require me to get a license to operate my toaster?

I am sure people like you would desire that

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#534

Post by ceejayoz »

syshum wrote: post #480
nemothekid wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However there is no circumstance in which I’d support the government requiring a medical procedure to be performed on someone without their consent. You do realize vaccine mandates aren’t new? The chicken pox vaccine has been mandates for all children attending public schools for over 20 years now. It has been enormously successful in eradicated what used to be a very common disease.

Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society The child vaccine requirement analogy is flawed for at-least 3 reasons 1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can. 2. It only applies if attend a public school, pa…

> Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society

For which vaccine was a year's safety record not sufficient to detect side effects? Which one needed a decade to discover side effects?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#535

Post by keneda7 »

jhugo wrote: post #220
logicchains wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's a non-peer-reviewed discussion of some graphs from Our World In Data. A discussion published in the European Journal of Epidemiology. It doesn't just look at those two countries; its statistical analysis covers 68 countries and 2947 US counties. You don't think that if the vaccine were effective at preventing spread, there should be at least some evidence of this effect when comparing vaccination rate and sprea…

The discussion completely ignores basically all the potential confounding factors. Two huge ones are lockdown measures and level of testing. Even in a largely vaccinated population, if you do widespread community testing you will find a lot of asymptomatic cases. If you don't do widespread community testing you won't. So you can have wildly different caseloads in two highly-vaccinated populations, yet no meaningful m…

Could you please provide a peer reviewed study that takes into account all potentially confounding factors that shows the claim you made in the last sentence related to prevention against deaths?

When I look at the pfizer 6 month study (not peer reviewed) I do not see that.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v...

When I look at Scotlands data I do not see that.

https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/9475/21-09-29-covid1...

Same with the UK.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Same with Israel

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

Every dataset I look says the opposite so I would love to see the peer reviewed study that takes into account all potential confounding factors that led you to your conclusion.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#536

Post by ragle »

doctorwho42 wrote: post #187
smsm42 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> our operation has become brittle and subject to massive failures under the slightest pressure I somehow notice a lot of this lately, in many different areas. I wonder if there isn't a common cause behind those. Is it just covid or something bigger?

It is large due to corporations taking on lean-business models from MBAs over the last decade+. When a business runs lean, it becomes more fragile to disruptions. Unfortunately due to our economic system, there is a semi-regular boon-bust cycle, so if it wasn't COVID, it would have been something else that kicks the stool out from under the legs of these corporations. In the past this wasn't as big as an issue becaus…

"Car Guys vs. Bean Counters: The Battle For the Soul of American Business"[1] by Bob Lutz tells this story really well, from Lutz' vantage point trying to salvage General Motors from the clutches of an army of MBAs.

There's a decent summary of the book (and the general problem) in the 2012 Time article "Driven off the Road by MBAs"[2] as well.

[1] - https://www.amazon.com/Car-Guys-vs-Bean-Counters-ebook/dp/B0...

[2] - http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2081930...

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#537

Post by WalterBright »

ethanbond wrote: post #372
hef19898 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered always why people wondered. Airbus went to great length to make cross-certification of pilots possible for that very reason.

Nobody is wondering anything. Advantages are obvious. They were wondering why you’d prioritize that over the aircraft’s ability to stay in the air.

I've followed many 737MAX threads on HN, and they sure did dismiss this issue. It was always "why didn't they design a whole new airplane from the ground up".

> why you’d prioritize that over the aircraft’s ability to stay in the air.

This is an egregious misunderstanding. There was nothing wrong with the purpose of the the MCAS system nor the concept of it. What went wrong was its failure to follow the dual path design, and do a proper failure analysis of its design. There was a further problem with some pilots not understanding how to deal with stab trim runaway.

These problems have since been corrected, and MCAS is still on the 737MAX.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#538

Post by over_the_raibow »

smt88 wrote: post #305
roenxi wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the specific question that the government is answering is "should these people be employed if they make choices I disagree with". It is more borderline than it might appear at first blush. I'm not sure I can think of a precedent for being so willing to eject that many people from the workforce in such a way.

> should these people be employed if they make choices I disagree with This is a disingenuous way to frame it. The current govt is anti-Nazi, but it's never tried to mandate that all employees found to be Nazis must be fired. The reason vaccines are an issue of employment (only at larger employers, by the way) is that unvaccinated people endanger their coworkers. People have a right to be unvaccinated, and the rest o…

>People have a right to be unvaccinated, and the rest of us have a right to protect ourselves from them.

No you don t. You took a vaccine that s supposed to protect you. You don t have any right to impose it through mandates on others. This is hiding malicious intent behind "what about the children" argument. You got your shot, you re protected and under no threat, move on with your life and leave people and their rights alone.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#539

Post by corpdronejuly »

hodgesrm wrote: post #155
mhh__ wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50% slower than C++ is pretty terrible. Verbosity is almost more helpful for optimization in a way, in the sense that C code ends up being fast because it's simpler than C is harder to optimize. As for COBOL, isn't one of the issues that it's super complicated and not specified properly until recently?

Back in the day it was mostly very verbose but extremely fast. Cobol was designed for batch processing on use cases like accounting systems. We used it on signal processing apps, which had a lot of data, mostly on tape. It could rip through data stored on high-density mag tape--it was able to process data at the speed of the device. (I did COBOL apps in the early 1980s.)

I love stories like this. It's so much harder to push our hardware to "the speed of the device" anymore, and hearing stories about others doing that is cool.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#540

Post by downandout »

unethical_ban wrote: post #475
baumy wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the choice is between 3.5 million dead, and the rise of authoritarianism and censorship, then yes the former is much less tragic than the latter and therefore the more acceptable option. And that's before taking into account that the survival rate is quite a bit higher than 99%, so it won't be 3.5 million dead. And also before taking into account that the vast majority of the dead will be the very old, and people…

Vaccine mandates aren't new. You weren't protesting them 3 years ago, but now you are willing to take the side of 3.5 million members of the community slowly dying so you don't have to get a shot. Your persecution complex is out of control. The absurdity of peoples' accusations of world-ending authoritarianism and censorship is baffling.

Vaccine mandates aren't new.

No. But mandating a brand new vaccine is new. We don’t know what the long term effects are. Nothing about COVID or the way in which tyrants around the world are using it to seize new powers is normal.

People at the FDA are resigning left and right [1]. Nobody wants their name on this thing.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/anger-frustration-at...

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