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China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

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Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#151

Post by elefanten »

whatshisface wrote: post #103
pedrosorio wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2? Any Russian movies about the US winning the WW2? Naturally each country tells their own narrative. This seems like a silly point to make.

It's not a silly point to make when you realize that Hollywood is not a government agency. It is a reasonable question to ask how this coordination is possible when there are no legal restraints on failing to coordinate.

Is the Russian film industry a Russian government agency?

The simplest explanation is that, especially historically, Hollywood has targeted domestic audiences first. What message do you think is/was more likely to play well in the US and broadly in the west?

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#152

Post by slater »

wolverine876 wrote: post #128
lelandfe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The easiest way to inject a propaganda idea into most people’s minds is to let it go through the medium of an entertainment picture when they do not realize that they are being propagandized. - Elmer Davis, director of the US Office of War Information

Where is that quote from? I don't want to ironically get caught by propaganda (or misinformation) myself.

i think it's from

> - Elmer Davis, director of the US Office of War Information

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#153

Post by reaperducer »

satao wrote: post #67
perihelions wrote: post #38

Of course Wikimedia won't take any action to appease this totalitarian nonsense. But, most for-profit companies do exactly that. When was the last time any Hollywood movie or mainstream entertainment mentioned Taiwanese conflict? When do you last remember seeing "Free Tibet"? Or any Tibet? Chinese film censors can apply billions of dollars of pressure, simply to change a single word. Who can withstand that? Wikimedia…

It's even crazier because when you are not american you realize that Hollywood is also the biggest soft propaganda agency for the USA. When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2? Or about the Guantanamo Bay?

When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2?

Right now. There's a current multi-season show about the Axis winning WWII on Amazon Prime. From what I've read, it's pretty successful.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#154

Post by [deleted] »

twofornone wrote: post #12

My only surprise is that China hasn't mentioned the rabidly biased cabal of editors that gatekeep any remotely political article and bully any "non-pc" editors off the platform. Probably because the divisiveness is useful to China's rise, and it wouldn't surprise me if they are behind some of the editing. It's kind of offensive that wikipedia still has an image of neutrality when the entrenched activist editors refus…

[deleted]

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#155

Post by ignoranceprior »

reaperducer wrote: post #153
satao wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even crazier because when you are not american you realize that Hollywood is also the biggest soft propaganda agency for the USA. When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2? Or about the Guantanamo Bay?

When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2? Right now. There's a current multi-season show about the Axis winning WWII on Amazon Prime. From what I've read, it's pretty successful.

The USSR was not part of the Axis. Quite the opposite. (Although they did have a non-aggression pact with Germany before the start of the war, that did not last long.)

Which just goes to show that many Americans aren't really aware of how the Soviets were crucial to winning that war.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#156

Post by Fricken »

wolverine876 wrote: post #141
Fricken wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are the gullible and ignorant victim of western anti-china propaganda. Many independent studies have been done. They all show very high approval ratings. Higher now, after the pandemic.

The Chinese people who do have free speech, in Taiwan, and did, in Hong Kong, certainly don't/didn't like the CCP much. Perhaps that's why the CCP felt the need to shut down freedom in Hong Kong - too much criticism. If the CCP is so popular, why not have free speech and elections?

Why not? I don't think China is going to change it's functional political system just to prove a point to some rando on the internet is why.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#157

Post by sprayk »

ignoranceprior wrote: post #155
reaperducer wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2? Right now. There's a current multi-season show about the Axis winning WWII on Amazon Prime. From what I've read, it's pretty successful.

The USSR was not part of the Axis. Quite the opposite. (Although they did have a non-aggression pact with Germany before the start of the war, that did not last long.) Which just goes to show that many Americans aren't really aware of how the Soviets were crucial to winning that war.

anecdotal evidence doesn't really go to show anything

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#158

Post by rsj_hn »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #146
rsj_hn wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The treatment of communist guerillas by the South Korean government was substantially more humane (and far less bloody) than the treatment of civil society by the military junta ruling North Korea up to and including the leadership of Kim Tu-bong, who was himself dissapeared by Kim Il Sung in 1949. The problem here is that the hard-left stalinist policies that were widespread in the 30s-50s (and imitated by Mao) requ…

I've never heard of pre Korean war North Korea massacring tens of thousands of civilians like South Korea in the Jeju uprising, though obviously after the war human rights was often terrible. It's certainly possible it happened, but it doesn't change that the US assisted Rhee in killing leftists and then propped up his government for decades. >who was himself dissapeared by Kim Il Sung in 1949. 1957, supposedly for b…

> I've never heard of pre Korean war North Korea massacring tens of thousands of civilians like South Korea in the Jeju uprising

I recommend learning about the history of North Korea. Those concentration camps existed before the war. Do you really think the forced collectivization policies and murder of "class enemies", monks, priests, landlords, university professors, members of the press, etc., that killed 30 million in Russia and 55 million in China were miraculously bloodless in North Korea? It was the same set of Stalinist policies in all these places, with similar networks of gulags, summary executions, etc.

> 1957, supposedly for being part of a China and Soviet backed coup attempt.

He was dissapeared in 1949. No one knows what happened to him, but there are some rumors that he was killed in 57.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#159

Post by blacksmith_tb »

slater wrote: post #152
wolverine876 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is that quote from? I don't want to ironically get caught by propaganda (or misinformation) myself.

i think it's from > - Elmer Davis, director of the US Office of War Information

I assume they wanted proper references[1].

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Office_of_War_In...

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#160

Post by epgui »

Glyptodon wrote: post #147
epgui wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it matters. Goods and wrongs don't cancel out, but they both matter. It's funny you mention whataboutism, because that's what I was about to mention too. This really goes to my main point: it's important to be able to levy criticism and to NOT give anyone a free pass, but many of the comments in here seem to be implicitly (and arguably, erroneously) splitting world actors into "good" and "evil". Hence the "us vs…

Unfortunately there are things that are beyond permissible in this world - the holocaust was supposed to be never again. Trying to say "oh, but the west has problems too" when there aren't any comparable attempts at large-scale genocide ongoing is crazy. Not because the west doesn't have problems. Or because the west is somehow angelic. But because it's like comparing a nuke to a house fire. And some things really ar…

> Trying to say "oh, but the west has problems too" when there aren't any comparable attempts at large-scale genocide ongoing is crazy.

Again, this is not what I was trying to say, and if it came across that way then I was misunderstood or I did not express myself correctly.

I can see how what I wrote could have been interpreted that way, but I would really encourage you to apply the "charitable interpretation" principle.

I would also note that the topic of genocide is different from the original topic of conversation. While my comment was of a more general scope than the wiki drama, I think it's a bit unfair to suggest that I'm trying to change the topic or deflect attention by way of whataboutism.

---

Edit: reconsidering this thread, I think I would like to clarify that what my comment was trying to get at was that a lot of the criticism being levied against China suffered from the "genetic fallacy" [1]: regardless of whether the criticism was right or wrong, some of it didn't address the matter at hand (the wiki drama) and instead resorted to criticizing the world actor based on other baggage. It's not that the conclusion of the critiques is wrong per se, it's more that it might be right only by accident. I hope this helps clarify.

[1] https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

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