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Delta does not appear to make children sicker

reuters.com

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Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#61

Post by peteradio »

wizard-beta wrote: post #50
Pxtl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that this has been overly politicized, I think you're attempting a moral equivalence here that is wrong. One side is pushing 100% vaccination, which scientists say is the best way to solve this. The other side is opposing even the most reasonable public health mandates like masking, pushing proven snake-oil like hydroxychloriquine.

No. There's a third side pushing for the Scandinavian solution. Pro-vaccine, but anti-mandate. A little while ago, everyone wanted to be like Norway or Denmark or Sweden -- now they pretend these countries don't exist. Edit: of course I got shadowbanned from Hacker News for opposing the surveillance state. Curse you. Edit 2: someone below says "The Scandinavian countries all have vaccine cards, however, and permit pe…

Not sure what you think a shadow-ban is but I can see your comments.

Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#63

Post by maxerickson »

throwaway9980 wrote: post #41
tootie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievable that this far into the pandemic people are still making this argument. It has been known from near the beginning that the direct risk to kids is relatively small. The risk is secondary exposure. Kids in school spread diseases like kudzu and can expose hundreds of adults very quickly. Protecting kids will prevent spread. Not to mention kids who are vaccinated can still possibly be exposed to covid an…

I will almost certainly choose to have my children vaccinated as soon as they become eligible. On the other hand I find your argument difficult to accept. I am happy to be injected and subjected to lots of things for the greater good, that’s my choice as an adult, however as a parent I’m wary of any attempt to use my children in furtherance of the greater good. Put it this way: if for arguments sake it was better for…

There's not much reason to believe that getting infected is statistically safer for children than vaccination though.

Even among young males (12-17), ACIP found that severe illness from infection had a higher incidence than myocarditis.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-...

So people doing what is best for their children shouldn't be getting angry about vaccination.

Dismissing careful evaluation of evidence and showing up raging at a public meeting is antisocial.

Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#64

Post by falcolas »

adflux wrote: post #57
falcolas wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, no, all the science does not point to an infection being better than a vaccine. A well cited article that discusses this: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/prior-infection-vs-v...

"Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination," the authors concluded. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... From the article :')

I feel like you cherry picked the one study that fits your bias, and ignored the dozen others which do not.

Here’s a direct counter from one of the other studies:

> The CDC researchers found that people previously infected but unvaccinated were 2.34 times more likely to get reinfected than people who were previously infected and fully vaccinated.

And here’s the conclusion of the article:

Overall, the variable immune responses to infection, lower neutralization against delta, and the clear boost in protection from a very safe, highly effective vaccine make a strong argument for vaccinating the recovered.

Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#65

Post by wizard-beta »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
wizard-beta wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There's a third side pushing for the Scandinavian solution. Pro-vaccine, but anti-mandate. A little while ago, everyone wanted to be like Norway or Denmark or Sweden -- now they pretend these countries don't exist. Edit: of course I got shadowbanned from Hacker News for opposing the surveillance state. Curse you. Edit 2: someone below says "The Scandinavian countries all have vaccine cards, however, and permit pe…

The Scandinavian countries all have vaccine cards, however, and permit people to discriminate based on whether one has those. The U.S. won’t jail you if you refuse the vaccine. But you have to stay home. This is functionally identical to the Scandinavian solution, minus public buildings and minus a federal vaccine certificate.

[flagged]

Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#66

Post by adolph »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
wizard-beta wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There's a third side pushing for the Scandinavian solution. Pro-vaccine, but anti-mandate. A little while ago, everyone wanted to be like Norway or Denmark or Sweden -- now they pretend these countries don't exist. Edit: of course I got shadowbanned from Hacker News for opposing the surveillance state. Curse you. Edit 2: someone below says "The Scandinavian countries all have vaccine cards, however, and permit pe…

The Scandinavian countries all have vaccine cards, however, and permit people to discriminate based on whether one has those. The U.S. won’t jail you if you refuse the vaccine. But you have to stay home. This is functionally identical to the Scandinavian solution, minus public buildings and minus a federal vaccine certificate.

Are you saying US and Scandinavia are the same but different? The US won’t jail you unless you disobey?

Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#67

Post by raphlinus »

isabelc wrote: post #30
bryanlarsen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with infection to provide immunity is its variability, not its strength. It's kind of moot anyways, infection + vaccine is better than just an infection.

No, according to Cleveland Clinic's study, vaccine adds no benefit to those with natural immunity. https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20210608/No-point-vacc...

That study is seriously out of date, as it addresses the optimal strategy to prioritize vaccinations when the vaccines are scarce. That's still, sadly, a major concern in many parts of the world, but not so much in the US and Europe.

Since then, there's solid science[1] that hybrid immunity is significantly better than either vaccine-induced or disease-induced. So taking the vaccine is clearly the better choice whether you've been infected or not.

[1]: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj2258

Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#68

Post by 18pfsmt »

Here are the referenced studies this article is based on:

"Anti-SARS-CoV-2 receptor binding domain antibody evolution after mRNA vaccination"

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04060-7

"Illness characteristics of COVID-19 in children infected with the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant"

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.06.21264467v...

>"Few children presented to hospital, and long illness duration was uncommon, with either variant. Interpretation COVID-19 in UK school-aged children due to SARSCoV2 Delta strain B.1.617.2 resembles illness due to the Alpha variant B.1.1.7., with short duration and similar symptom burden."

Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#69

Post by kbelder »

falcolas wrote: post #64
adflux wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination," the authors concluded. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... From the article :')

I feel like you cherry picked the one study that fits your bias, and ignored the dozen others which do not. Here’s a direct counter from one of the other studies: > The CDC researchers found that people previously infected but unvaccinated were 2.34 times more likely to get reinfected than people who were previously infected and fully vaccinated. And here’s the conclusion of the article: Overall, the variable immune…

"> The CDC researchers found that people previously infected but unvaccinated were 2.34 times more likely to get reinfected than people who were previously infected and fully vaccinated."

That's not comparing vaccine vs natural immunity. That's comparing vaccine + natural immunity to natural immunity alone. Not what the question is, even though the framing of the study implies otherwards.

Re: Delta does not appear to make children sicker

#70

Post by farmerstan »

tootie wrote: post #19
angelzen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids have vanishingly small risk of covid death, 1%-2% of the already vanishingly small risk of death for kids. The article confirms that the 'long covid in kids' fearmongering is also unwarranted. Given that surviving an infection also provides better long term protection (99.9995% of children survive covid), and that an infection later in life becomes significantly more dangerous, it raises big questions over the s…

It's unbelievable that this far into the pandemic people are still making this argument. It has been known from near the beginning that the direct risk to kids is relatively small. The risk is secondary exposure. Kids in school spread diseases like kudzu and can expose hundreds of adults very quickly. Protecting kids will prevent spread. Not to mention kids who are vaccinated can still possibly be exposed to covid an…

Pfizer vaccine doesn’t prevent infection from delta. Vaccines prevent hospitalization. This is well documented. My friend, a doctor, was just infected by delta this week and she’s vaccinated. Getting kids vaccinated wont prevent other vaccinated kids from being infected.

The kids vaccine is 1/3 of the dose of the adult vaccine. And the adult vaccine is known to drop down to 20% efficacy after 4 months. Kids already have an extremely high resistance to severe problems from Covid.

So what exactly is the point of vaccinating kids? It sounds like a way for Pfizer to justify vaccinating and then boosting the vaccine every 6 months for nothing.

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