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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

391–400 of 407 posts

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#391
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not how it works. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the RNA vaccine mechanism of action.

Before claiming other people don't know what they're talking about, it would be polite sufficiently understand it and refrain from making false claims yourself. > When a vaccinated cell dies, the debris will contain many spike proteins and protein fragments, which can then be taken up by a type of immune cell called an antigen-presenting cell. [1] Is it true that host cells need to die for the vaccine to take effect?…

The Irish Times is not a primary source. Try again.

> ... but I recall some claims that the vaccine kills cells.

You are spreading your own ignorance.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except your scientist(s) were wrong this time and killed 10 times more people by not implementing quick and mild restrictions and letting the disease spread. Sure, what US and France did was also different kind of wrong but it does not make you right. Only thing that has been life saving is very quick reaction that limits the spread at its infancy. Also of course quick vaccination.

>Except your scientist(s) were wrong this time and killed 10 times more people by not implementing quick and mild restrictions and letting the disease spread. This is the dumbest hunk of shit I've ever heard. We have the exact same death rates and infection rates as the rest of Europe.

Maybe at the moment but not during spring 2020. Other Scandinavian and Baltic states did not do the mistakes Sweden did and their death rates were 10 times lower. Also see Greece vs Spain and Italy. Well, Italy and Spain did not have change because they were the first to get hit by COVID-19 but Sweden had plenty of time to not make mistakes.

But perhaps Sweden is better off than others. You have now less burden on social system and economic loss was perhaps a little smaller, not much but perhaps still worth the sacrifice.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#393
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] The claims seem incorrect. Please stop.

No. The claim is false. There is nothing close to "hijacking" going on. They are all very standard, highly parallel molecular mechanisms. I can't help that neither of you have basic understanding of biochemistry.

I can't help but feel like you think you've found some chink in my arguments and so are continuing to push this single point, though it is ultimately completely irrelevant to the thread.

Search "virus hijack" on google and you'll see that it is a very common colloquialism. These vaccines similarly commandeer the celular machinery to manufacture proteins from a human engineered mRNA sequence that is not found in isolation in nature. And to the cells detriment. This absolutely fits the common definition of hijacking (like hijacking a server) and, furthermore, while the actual function of cellular machinery manufacturing proteins is "natural", you are disingenuously stretching the definition of the word natural when you include injections of human engineered (unnatural) substances in unnatural quantities for unnatural purposes (human cells under no circumstances naturally manufacture exclusively spike proteins).

I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop spamming this thread with this irrelevant and fallacious argument.

Edit: in fact, while we're on the subject of what is and is not natural, I don't believe it would be reasonable to claim that human immune systems evolved to handle what are essentially megadoses of an inflammatory and likely cytotoxic protein that is also being expressed on tissue surfaces. That doesn't guarantee that this is dangerous but for the bajillionth time, the point is there is more than enough known and unknown complexity in this delicately balanced system to allow for the possibility that hundreds of millions of rushed vaccinations could easily turn out to be a minor or major fuckup in the long run.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Except your scientist(s) were wrong this time and killed 10 times more people by not implementing quick and mild restrictions and letting the disease spread. This is the dumbest hunk of shit I've ever heard. We have the exact same death rates and infection rates as the rest of Europe.

Maybe at the moment but not during spring 2020. Other Scandinavian and Baltic states did not do the mistakes Sweden did and their death rates were 10 times lower. Also see Greece vs Spain and Italy. Well, Italy and Spain did not have change because they were the first to get hit by COVID-19 but Sweden had plenty of time to not make mistakes. But perhaps Sweden is better off than others. You have now less burden on so…

Give me any country in Europe and I'll show you when their rates were 10 times higher. Corona hits mostly in waves, the only worthwhile numbers to compare are the totals over the entire pandemic, not a specific period. We certainly wouldn't "sacrifice" our citizens for the economy.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#395
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before claiming other people don't know what they're talking about, it would be polite sufficiently understand it and refrain from making false claims yourself. > When a vaccinated cell dies, the debris will contain many spike proteins and protein fragments, which can then be taken up by a type of immune cell called an antigen-presenting cell. [1] Is it true that host cells need to die for the vaccine to take effect?…

The Irish Times is not a primary source. Try again. > ... but I recall some claims that the vaccine kills cells. You are spreading your own ignorance.

Have I claimed it is a primary source? I have listed a source, as my time is limited. If you disagree feel free to list a better one. You have listed exactly 0 sources for your claims. By logic, you are the one spreading your own ignorance.

I would especially be interested in a source claiming APCs transcribe RNA to present antigens; that antigens enter the cells; and that they (rather than you) are full of it.

Note, I think both you and OP presented false claims and misconception. OP probably more, but it is you that will help spread and affirm more anti-vaxers with the - you're wrong, here's what I think, now shut up and take the jab - attitude towards their concerns.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#396
post #388
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why a year? Why not daily? The vaccinations happen throughout the day. Why not per lifetime? You can only get the second dose once. I could pick any interval, either customary (hourly, daily, monthly) or completely arbitrary (per 47 seconds) and get any number as a result. If you can't argue why a per-year incidence is the proper number and not any other, then that by itself disproves the validity of the approach. Yo…

> Why a year? Why not daily? The vaccinations happen throughout the day. Because vaccinations take months, perhaps up to a year. In my country it's been at least half a year by now and we're at something like 55-60% of the population. > Why not per lifetime? You can only get the second dose once. Lifetime makes it an even worse comparison for natural myocarditis since you can get that in any year of your life. (But i…

Then do you agree with the following:

If everyone got vaccinated during a single day, we would use a shorter interval.

If everyone got the standard of care they do now, the outcome would be roughly the same.

While the outcome would be the same, the calculated statistic would be orders of magnitude different.

If so, then what good is the calculated result?

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe at the moment but not during spring 2020. Other Scandinavian and Baltic states did not do the mistakes Sweden did and their death rates were 10 times lower. Also see Greece vs Spain and Italy. Well, Italy and Spain did not have change because they were the first to get hit by COVID-19 but Sweden had plenty of time to not make mistakes. But perhaps Sweden is better off than others. You have now less burden on so…

Give me any country in Europe and I'll show you when their rates were 10 times higher. Corona hits mostly in waves, the only worthwhile numbers to compare are the totals over the entire pandemic, not a specific period. We certainly wouldn't "sacrifice" our citizens for the economy.

Yes, it hits in waves and every wave should be handled properly. It is pointless to compare totals. It is important to understand what can be done better and for that it makes sense to analyze each wave separately. Sweden miserably failed the first one and did not really care about others. Other Scandinavian and Baltic countries fared much better but could not continue to make perfect choices. Baltic is at the moment totally messed up by their poor vaccination rates.

But if you insist to compare totals, here is small list. Not really 10x difference but close.

Deaths per 100000 Sweden 144 Denmark 46 Finland 20 Norway 16

For sure, there are countries with even worse outcome. Still presenting Sweden as some kind of success story makes me sick.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me any country in Europe and I'll show you when their rates were 10 times higher. Corona hits mostly in waves, the only worthwhile numbers to compare are the totals over the entire pandemic, not a specific period. We certainly wouldn't "sacrifice" our citizens for the economy.

Yes, it hits in waves and every wave should be handled properly. It is pointless to compare totals. It is important to understand what can be done better and for that it makes sense to analyze each wave separately. Sweden miserably failed the first one and did not really care about others. Other Scandinavian and Baltic countries fared much better but could not continue to make perfect choices. Baltic is at the moment…

Well you did surprise me, I didnt expect Finland and Norway to be so low. Although these along with Iceland are outliers in Europe to say the least and Sweden is well in the middle. The baltics is comparable to Sweden.

But the reason we have more deaths than our neighbours is not because of no lockdowns, Finland was also very lenient. A _massive_ proportion of all of our deaths were from the nursing homes. The thing we did really bad was to not have any way to check the workers in the nursing homes for covid, which they did in Norway I know for sure and very likely in Finland. Had we done that then we likely would have the same as our neighbours, but don't pin it on lockdowns, they DON'T work.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that risk level of catching COVID is more or less a 1-time event. Once you've caught it and recovered (or gotten vaccinated) it's no longer a novel virus to your immune system and subsequent infections have an even lower risk for the vast majority of people. The real problem is when everyone in that 1% of hospitalizations catches it all at once, because we don't have nearly enough hospital beds to treat even a fr…

> But that risk level of catching COVID is more or less a 1-time event No. You can treat the risk of being hospitalized from COVID as a one-time event, but the risk of catching COVID is a continuous event until you've either caught it or it has been eradicated.

[deleted]

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's heretical to say such things and "anti-science" as branded by the media. The fact that California now wants kids to get the vaccine is bonkers to me. Kids don't even feel this shit if they catch it. Pharmaceutical companies must be paying big bucks to the politicians in that state.

Covid is more dangerous to kids than chicken pox, we still vaccinate kids for chickenpox though. Hundreds of children have died of Covid-19. https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-...

Thousands of kids die every year of the flu but we never mandated the flu vaccine for them but somehow hundreds of deaths over almost two years is supposed to prove COVID is more dangerous and experimental vaccines with no long term safety data should be mandated for kids? Give me a break!
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