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Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#171

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

colpabar wrote: post #17
codetrotter wrote: post #5

For the most part a very good thing. Wonder what that means for third-party HN client apps though, since HN accounts cannot be deleted.

Great point! It's definitely a step in the right direction, but my immediate thought was "what about all the sites that don't actually delete anything?" Hopefully apple makes a more user-friendly announcement about this that will introduce people of the concept of data retention and how "deleting" an account isn't really deleting anything.

It doesn’t actually say the account must be deleted. It says: “…must also allow users to INITIATE deletion of their account”

Capitals mine. So I can allow the initiation of deletion but never actually completely delete the account… and my app complies.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#172

Post by mithr »

not2b wrote: post #85
jb1991 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises one notable benefit of going through Apple for all payments -- as a customer, it buffers me from dark billing patterns of any random company. Companies like 37signals don't like it and claim it hampered their relationship with customers, and that might be true in some cases, but overall it seems like a benefit for customers to have a consistency process of buying, refunding, cancelling everything they use…

But if the price of that benefit is 30% off the top for Apple for all payments, it's a high price to pay. Perhaps better consumer protection laws would be a better way to fight the dark patterns.

You can believe that dark billing patterns are bad and this change is good, while at the same time also believing Apple should charge developers less -- these are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#173

Post by lttlrck »

8note wrote: post #72
tshaddox wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California the New York Times still requires you to chat with a customer support person on their website. You still have to wait in queue, then wait for the person (or maybe it's a bot at this point) paste in several attempts at retaining your subscription. The law needs to be that you can cancel all recurring payments through a standard interface. It's ludicrous that my online banking account doesn't just show me…

I should be able to tell my credit card company that I'm ending a subscription, and have them be in charge of notifying the provider that the subscription has been terminated

Yes for recurring subscriptions the control should be firmly under the consumers control. Perhaps there should be a special recurring transaction type on credit cards akin to those in PayPal.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#174

Post by robmaceachern »

The press release sounds more flexible than the actual guidelines:

Press release (emphasis mine): "all apps that allow for account creation must also allow users to _initiate_ deletion of their account from within the app."

Guidelines: "If your app supports account creation, you must also offer account deletion within the app."

Has anyone seen any clarification on what options might be acceptable? e.g. I'm wondering about something simple, like opening an email composer with the app support email address and a pre-filled message body requesting account deletion which would be performed async.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#175

Post by zerkten »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #154
bpodgursky wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all apps that allow for account creation must also allow users to initiate deletion of their account from within the app No, that doesn't seem true.

What bank lets you create an account just from the app? … Okay, the digital-only ones, maybe. But virtually all other banks I've used make you go to a branch.

Revolut and many other apps allow creation of accounts from the app per local regulations. It may require SSN in the US to complete sign-up, but it's all done through the app and is immediate.

The account falls under all the regular retention and reporting requirements, although these companies mitigate some classes of issues with stricter limits, not paying any interest (even though that'd be miniscule), etc.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#176

Post by fuddle »

nightski wrote: post #96
jeroenhd wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why using the blockchain got user data is such a stupid idea. The immutability makes it impossible to redact or remove information, even if that information is encrypted. The same is true foor P2P services where there is no central accounting system. Deleting the account shouldn't be a problem if all the "account" info is stored on the device itself, so if your reviewers aren't completely incompetent I don't…

Hate to break it to you but banks are not deleting your account immediately when you close it. They legally can't.

Can confirm, I worked at a fintech company previously with a large number of users. They had a "deleted_at" column on the user table in the database. It's not actually deleted.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#177

Post by jimmaswell »

vorpalhex wrote: post #78
judge2020 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even if that information is encrypted. Assuming that information is only visible to the owner of the key anyways, then disposing of the key effectively renders that encrypted data as garbage. Not being able to delete it only enables some unknown future attack that can decrypt any data without the key.

For now. If the blockchain survives long enough, that info will become public in time.

We invade the privacy of people from a few hundred years ago all the time and it's considered fine. Do you think there will be a breakthrough in encryprion breaking soon enough for it to matter?

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#178

Post by [deleted] »

anarchogeek wrote: post #27

What about inmutable systems? My app (using scuttlebutt) creates an 'account' but it's located as crypto keys only within the app and apple keychain. So far the apple reviewers refused to believe that it works like. It's open source, they've got the code... but still.... Same is true for anything crypto. The account as it were exists on many devices, but it's not something you as the app creator can manage. I think a…

[deleted]

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#179

Post by jmull »

staunch wrote: post #70
jmull wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Permitting apps to collect private data and have unrestricted internet access What apps are left if this is forbidden? "private data" can mean pretty much any user input. "unrestricted internet access" means pretty much any internet access. We're left with apps that either cannot accept user input or cannot access the internet at all.

A good system would probably have tiered permissions, something like: 1. No internet apps: store data locally on the device only, no upload or download. 2. Partial internet apps: store data locally, and only download data through an Apple proxy service that hides the user's IP address and any identifying info. 3. Full internet apps: store in the cloud, uploaded/downloaded through an Apple proxy that logs/filters ever…

I don't believe "only download data through an Apple proxy service" does much for user privacy/control of data.

A seemingly benign request that appears to simply request information can encode a user's private, sensitive data in the request URL, e.g.

I think there's no real distinction between your 2. 3. and 4.

There's a place for no internet access at all. It would be good if they had a permission for that.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#180

Post by echelon »

wruza wrote: post #121
echelon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels like a celebration of "Apple sticks it to the stupid app developers, hooray!" Except app developers are mostly small shops and startups. One-person operations. How would we like it if the web were forced to behave according to some governing body? It feels like some North Korean 1984 dystopia and we've all got explosive collars around our necks. It's anti-freedom, anti-American, anti-ownership, anti-Stallman. A…

Why don’t you just use pro-everything devices. Even top quality ones exist now, which can be reprogrammed to function as you wish. Apple is not the only option anyone has.

Because it's impossible to ignore 50% of the market using iPhones. To do so would be to doom your company.
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