Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#181

Post by asdff » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:37 AM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #107

fsckboy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that there isn't the beginning of a good idea in argument that you're making, but the way you describe it it boils down to "adopt cannabis as a popular platform plank and force one of the major parties to adopt cannabis as a popular platform plank" which might be fine but it might not be Yang's goal.

I'm not saying they should just try to get major parties to adopt cannabis legalization as a platform plank. I'm saying they should use cannabis to get adequate popular support for their party in hopes of getting the other parties to adopt the non-cannabis elements of their platform. Federal legalization/decriminalization is going to happen eventually, so this is a limited-time opportunity for a third party. Make hay…

Green party has this plank and its not helping them win any seats or have anyone pick up their other ideas.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#182

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:39 AM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #174

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything that's not "controversial" in American politics? Has the whole "evolution" thing been settled yet?

It sticks to fairly uncontroversial things. No mention of abortion, evolution, religion, gun rights, etc. As far as I can see.

You can only stick to uncontroversial things until someone asks you a question on live TV. I don't think avoiding the questions will last long.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#183

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:39 AM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #178

hef19898 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That American obsession with the founding fathers always puzzles me as a non-American. France is in tis 5th Republic, the second since WW2. Germany went through a lot of Government changes since the 18th century as well, as did a lot of other countries in Europe. With the exception of some wierdos nobody puts those long gone governments on a pedestal.

Germany doesn’t exactly have a good record when it comes to new governments. Nor does France. Very odd to use them as positive examples. As flawed as the American government may be, the Constitution is still a more solid foundation than pretty much anything that has come out of Europe since.

Well, the 5th French Republic is going well since the 50s, isn't it? As is the post-war BRD in Germany. Both used to have an Emperor at some point, Italy went from Kingdom to Facist regime to democracy. So yes, if the situation changes you can change your government form. Basing 21st Century politics on something written in the 18th century is... weird. Especially as it is more the interpretation of what the authors thought, and might think today, based on these writings. Just my outside opinion.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#184

Post by torginus » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:41 AM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #163

torginus wrote: post #142

Does the 3rd party make sense in the US election system? My impression was that 3rd parties are unhelpful, since they steal voters from ideologically similar parties, thus helping the opposition.

After Ross Perot's modest success in 1992 I think a very charismatic person could do it. But Yang lacks charisma and the mainstream media hates him (remember MSNBC and CNN editing him out of 30 infographics, which Yang says is intentional) so I don't think he can pull it off at the end of the day, even though his ideas are the ones that could actually unite the country.

My impression of the US media is that they are for-hire mercenaries, rather than journalists in any meaningful sense. They ganged up on Yang, Tulsi Gabbard, and Bernie, despite most of them having policies they claim to support.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#185

Post by bengale » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:41 AM UTC

I really like that guy, I hope he does well.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#186

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:42 AM UTC

nivenkos wrote: post #137

inglor_cz wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that term limits are becoming more important with longevity technology coming to the fore. While I do not believe that longevity technology is going stay in hands of the rich and powerful forever, they will surely be the first group that will use it extensively. Even adding 15-20 years of working life would mean that 100 y.o. politicians or judges would become a normal occurrence. For Democrats: would you lik…

We don't have longevity technology yet though, only "keep you alive whilst you get dementia" technology. I wouldn't want to live over 90, maybe not even over 80 - but we'll see what changes by then. I agree with term limits though, but mainly to ensure that the politicians better represent those working in the economy. So many issues come from politicians effectively being idle landlords - completely divorced from th…

A permanent but senile supreme court is an ideal substrate for permanent government; in 2100 the justices are the same ones from today, all bodies in vats, whose decisions are delegated opaquely to key party donors.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#187

Post by asdff » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

gpm wrote: post #91

jcfrei wrote: post #37

As long as the first-past-the-post voting system is used in the US such movements will go nowhere. Unsurprisingly ranked-choice voting is mentioned as their first core value.

Other countries with first past the post voting regularly manage to have more than two parties. Canada, the UK, etc. I don't think the USes problems can be solely attributed to fist past the post voting (though it certainly doesn't help).

Even with ranked choice the US will remain mostly two partied like the UK and some provinces in Canada. The parties are both so dominant already and well whipped, and not much chance coalitions form in this climate when these two parties aren't even in agreement of the same facts of reality. Maybe a centrist coalition designed to spoil dem votes.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#188

Post by kryptiskt » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:44 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #180

Karto wrote: post #158

The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…

It reminded me of "twirling towards freedom": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:The_Simpsons/Character_... I hadn't realised just how much Macron's party materialized from nowhere. Must have been huge pent-up demand for an alternative. However I suspect that only works in systems that aren't FPTP in the first place, and I suspect Macron is going to the same nowhere that all American third-party candidates go. Espe…

France has FPTP elections, but in two rounds, so there is room for tactics.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#189

Post by disneygibson » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:44 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #183

disneygibson wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany doesn’t exactly have a good record when it comes to new governments. Nor does France. Very odd to use them as positive examples. As flawed as the American government may be, the Constitution is still a more solid foundation than pretty much anything that has come out of Europe since.

Well, the 5th French Republic is going well since the 50s, isn't it? As is the post-war BRD in Germany. Both used to have an Emperor at some point, Italy went from Kingdom to Facist regime to democracy. So yes, if the situation changes you can change your government form. Basing 21st Century politics on something written in the 18th century is... weird. Especially as it is more the interpretation of what the authors…

No, it isn’t weird, it’s simply rejecting the frankly naive notion that you should change everything all the time according to the whims of the populace. History and human nature didn’t begin in 1950.

Again, the US has never had anything remotely as horrible as the French Revolution or Nazi Germany. That’s likely a consequence of a constitutional government with limited powers.

The United Kingdom is in a very similar situation, although their specific version is different.

—-

Editing because apparently I am “posting too fast” and can’t reply. What a passive aggressive move.

Responding to your comment:

The American Revolution preceded the French one by a decade plus. Your chronology is backwards.

The French Revolution also didn’t pave the way for much at all. It failed, led to Napoleon, that failed, led to other monarchic systems until WWW1, another disaster, which led to fascism and WW2, an even bigger disaster.

And the US isn’t a democracy and never has been. The founders set it up as a representative republic for a specific reason.

My thesis still stands that the US is infinitely more stable and has been in comparison to Europe, largely due to its adherence to the original constitution and legal setup.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#190

Post by robocat » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:49 AM UTC

tryptophan wrote: post #14

a_t48 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tempted to back them purely for Ranked Choice Voting. Will be keeping an eye on this for the future.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

I’m from NZ which changed from FPP to MMP in 1993.

Two big problems:

1. Half of the politicians that make it into parliament are from the party list (which is chosen by the party) and are not voted for individually. I believe much of the power of democracy is the ability to vote people out, and the party list mostly prevents that.

2. There is a lot of talk of strategic voting. I guess all systems can be gamed, but MMP seems to encourage it.

https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/what-is-new-zealands-sy... “Every candidate who wins an electorate gets a seat in Parliament. They are called electorate MPs. The remaining seats are filled from party lists. Every party has a party list, which is a list of candidates ranked in the order the party wants those candidates to be elected to Parliament. Candidates elected from a party list are called list MPs.”