Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#171

Post by disneygibson » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:23 AM UTC

Karto wrote: post #158

The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…

And like Macron, Yang seems to have the support of globalist technocratic elites. Very similar situation indeed.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#172

Post by fighterpilot » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:25 AM UTC

dylkil wrote: post #162

Factorium wrote: post #161

We've already experimented with UBI in 2020 and seen the result: - Huge levels of fraud (applications from overseas scammers for state unemployment benefits etc.) - Widespread shortages of entry-level workers - Massive inflation and economic dislocation Instead of UBI, we should just stop illegal immigration, and support deportations, which will increase wages and lower cost of living (real estate) pressures. Exactly…

> which will increase wages and lower cost of living (real estate) pressures. this is nonsense

Why? It should increase low-skilled wages since you're removing a chunk of low-skilled labor supply. It'd reduce rents by a little since the housing stock remains unchanged but demand is reduced, but the effect is probably small. Bad for the economy overall but these two claims seem pretty straightforward.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#173

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:25 AM UTC

xscott wrote: post #111

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a reason I like approval voting. It's easier to consider what your ballot's effect will be. That's hard with IRV.

Approval voting makes much more sense to me. Consider ranked-choice if it were applied to the presidency: Given that some states are slow to report their results, there are scenarios where you can't fall back to people's second choices until all the votes are in and finalized to determine who lost the first round. With approval voting, you can declare a victor without running a state machine.

Why is this a problem in the age of computers and internet?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#174

Post by disneygibson » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:27 AM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #167

aazaa wrote: post #2

The Platform page lists a selection of positions that I think would not be very controversial. https://www.forwardparty.com/platform Surprisingly, the issue that Yang is known for, UBI, is not on the list. UBI is, however, present here: https://www.forwardparty.com/whyforward I wonder if that was accidental.

Is there anything that's not "controversial" in American politics? Has the whole "evolution" thing been settled yet?

It sticks to fairly uncontroversial things. No mention of abortion, evolution, religion, gun rights, etc. As far as I can see.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#175

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:29 AM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #174

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything that's not "controversial" in American politics? Has the whole "evolution" thing been settled yet?

It sticks to fairly uncontroversial things. No mention of abortion, evolution, religion, gun rights, etc. As far as I can see.

If they manage to avoid all of the current "hot button" issues, then the discourse around some of the things that they do talk about will have to be heated up, until there is suitable angry controversy.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#176

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:29 AM UTC

jagrsw wrote: post #159

".. because our founding fathers .." It's interesting to see that all sides of political dispute in US, even parties (like this one) which want to cater to the seemingly more rational and less emotional part of the populace use the argument of "the founding fathers wanted it this way, so... that must be the correct way of doing things forever".

That American obsession with the founding fathers always puzzles me as a non-American. France is in tis 5th Republic, the second since WW2. Germany went through a lot of Government changes since the 18th century as well, as did a lot of other countries in Europe. With the exception of some wierdos nobody puts those long gone governments on a pedestal.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#177

Post by asdff » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:34 AM UTC

nielsbot wrote: post #138

The Democracy Dollars plank doesn't say it will eliminate money in politics, so I don't think it goes far enough. Love the plank on eliminating the revolving door however. We really need that. (cf. Sinema)

I read that and I'm not sure how his points eliminate the revolving door.

   "Ban all legislators and anyone who works at a regulatory agency from working for a lobbying firm for a period of time after they leave office/their position."

Won't change anything. Ajit Pai isn't working as a lobbiest yet he revolved right into his next gig.

    "Increase salaries for these individuals to make up for this limitation."

Legislators as it is today are not hurting for cash. If they are truly corrupt they will try and make as much money as possible by abusing their position no matter what they are paid.

    "Provide these individuals with stipends for a period of time after they leave their positions to work in the public sector."

They already get a pension after 5 years of service and once again, they will just take the very same jobs that are the root issue and have a stipend on top of it. Corruption is not for lack of money. It's from people lacking a moral compass seeing an opportunity and taking it.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#178

Post by disneygibson » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:34 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #176

jagrsw wrote: post #159

".. because our founding fathers .." It's interesting to see that all sides of political dispute in US, even parties (like this one) which want to cater to the seemingly more rational and less emotional part of the populace use the argument of "the founding fathers wanted it this way, so... that must be the correct way of doing things forever".

That American obsession with the founding fathers always puzzles me as a non-American. France is in tis 5th Republic, the second since WW2. Germany went through a lot of Government changes since the 18th century as well, as did a lot of other countries in Europe. With the exception of some wierdos nobody puts those long gone governments on a pedestal.

Germany doesn’t exactly have a good record when it comes to new governments. Nor does France. Very odd to use them as positive examples.

As flawed as the American government may be, the Constitution is still a more solid foundation than pretty much anything that has come out of Europe since.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#179

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:34 AM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #169

jagrsw wrote: post #159

".. because our founding fathers .." It's interesting to see that all sides of political dispute in US, even parties (like this one) which want to cater to the seemingly more rational and less emotional part of the populace use the argument of "the founding fathers wanted it this way, so... that must be the correct way of doing things forever".

The moment that the Founding Fathers cease to be the mythology glue holding the nation together will be the minute that the country fractures into 20 different nation-states.

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#180

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:35 AM UTC

Karto wrote: post #158

The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…

It reminded me of "twirling towards freedom": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:The_Simpsons/Character_...

I hadn't realised just how much Macron's party materialized from nowhere. Must have been huge pent-up demand for an alternative. However I suspect that only works in systems that aren't FPTP in the first place, and I suspect Macron is going to the same nowhere that all American third-party candidates go.

Especially if he starts by aiming for the top. What might work is a third party taking a city and then a state. This is how third parties practically operate in the UK, they're all local - SNP, Plaid, the various Northern Ireland factions.