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Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

theguardian.com

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Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#141

Post by femto »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #119
fdschoeneman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that Americans and Australians have proven over and over again that they will accept changes that negatively impact their lives and wallets, most recently the voluntary and involuntary changes that negatively affected their lives and wallets due to COVID-19.

I realize it was a little disrespectful of me to dismiss the many people who have made huge sacrifices to help prevent the virus both here in Australia and the US. The lockdowns have been very tough, and many businesses ruined. I'm in a two week quarantine after a close contact in a supermarket right now. I should have suggested that "some" people will not change, and they will be very vocal. Many politicians will wa…

If anything the respective COVID responses show that Australia and the US are quite different, despite the frequent parallels drawn.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#142

Post by dvhh »

Guthur wrote: post #2

This article, per usual, is creating a completely false narrative. Just by opposing a particular bill that is ostensibly aimed at controlling the climate does not mean you are opposed to all actions aligned with that bills outward goals.

I am pretty sure that in US usual fashion, the bill include other kind of amendment that have no relation with climate change and could have adverse effect on those company business, but yeah let's simplify narrative and say that these company are pro climate change.

I am far from being a FAANG cheerleader but I feel quite skeptical that it is as simple as the guardian is depicting it, if only because it is a britain based news outlet.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#143

Post by TaylorAlexander »

maceurt wrote: post #132
asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

From my understanding it is almost certainly a lost cause at this point. I am not a scientist so I do not know for certain, but from what I have read at this stage even if we halt greenhouse gas emissions to zero it still won't be enough to stop the drastic changes to the Earth caused by high CO2 levels. We would have to actively removing CO2 to have any sort of chance at preventing the worse problems associated with…

“Lost cause” makes it seem as if nothing we can do will help. But that isn’t true. There is a lot we could do that will make the world of 2100 and 2200 better than if we continue doing things as we’ve done them.

The real problem is that politicians are unwilling to act. But there’s no shortage of action we could take.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#144

Post by BoHerfVIJrEsq »

asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

> if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything

There was nothing unusual. Whatever storm or heatwave or drought you might refer to, there will be significant historical precedent. Whatever it is, often history will have recorded a much worse one back before humans had added much CO2 to the atmosphere.

> We need drastic measures.

I'm much more worried about people saying things like this than I am about the climate.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#145

Post by the-dude »

refurb wrote: post #139
the-dude wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really. Unions, of course. But labor ? No.

So you’re saying unions don’t represent labor?

No I said :

> This is the first time I have seen the word labor used in the context of US politics.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#146

Post by fdschoeneman »

nvr219 wrote: post #123
fdschoeneman wrote: post #101

There are lots of reasons to oppose this bill; why assume climate change is the only reason? And if it's fair to assume the opposition is to the portion of these taxes and regulations meant to address climate change, why assume the opposition is to efforts to remediate climate change writ large when the opposition might just be to these specific measures? Also, why is explicitly political stuff, let alone badly writt…

What makes this badly written?

Unsupported premises. Assumptions. Good writing should help us see things we didn't before. This does not.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#147

Post by AussieWog93 »

asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

>Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act.

This same rhetoric has been repeated for decades, and has continually received the same, hostile response from the public and politicians.

I'm not arguing that it's wrong or untruthful, but alarmist statements like this are a demonstrably poor tool for rousing the public into action and creating real change.

Why do climate activists continually insist on using persuasive techniques that are proven to not work?

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#148

Post by maceurt »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #143
maceurt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding it is almost certainly a lost cause at this point. I am not a scientist so I do not know for certain, but from what I have read at this stage even if we halt greenhouse gas emissions to zero it still won't be enough to stop the drastic changes to the Earth caused by high CO2 levels. We would have to actively removing CO2 to have any sort of chance at preventing the worse problems associated with…

“Lost cause” makes it seem as if nothing we can do will help. But that isn’t true. There is a lot we could do that will make the world of 2100 and 2200 better than if we continue doing things as we’ve done them. The real problem is that politicians are unwilling to act. But there’s no shortage of action we could take.

Human beings have been going down this path since the start of civilization. Human beings have been acting like this since we have had hierarchies of power and wealth. For us to solve the climate issue would require us as a species to do a complete 180. At that point we won't even be human anymore, which is why I say it is a lot cause. I assume the criteria for a solution to climate change has always included our survival as a species, but if it doesn't then I agree with the idea that it isn't a lost cause.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#149

Post by bjt2n3904 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #147
asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

>Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. This same rhetoric has been repeated for decades, and has continually received the same, hostile response from the public and politicians. I'm not arguing that it's wrong or untruthful, but alarmist statements like this are a demonstrably poor tool for rousing the public into action…

You know, if someone predicted the apocalypse was right around the corner, and the only way to avert it was to dramatically change my lifestyle in a way that was orthogonal to the catastrophe...

I'd say you're peddling religion. Especially if I don't change, and the doomsday prophecies fail. (Again, and again, and again...)

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#150

Post by KozmoNau7 »

This goes for all big corporations, all of them lie through their teeth and only care about the appearance of caring, because that's a lot more profitable than actually caring.

Reduce your consumption and lifestyle. Buy as little as possible, preferably second-hand. Maintain and repair what you already own. Become politically active or at least vote for people who are not in the pockets of big business.

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