Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#131

Post by acomjean » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:18 AM UTC

nvr219 wrote: post #123

fdschoeneman wrote: post #101

There are lots of reasons to oppose this bill; why assume climate change is the only reason? And if it's fair to assume the opposition is to the portion of these taxes and regulations meant to address climate change, why assume the opposition is to efforts to remediate climate change writ large when the opposition might just be to these specific measures? Also, why is explicitly political stuff, let alone badly writt…

What makes this badly written?

The bill doesn’t yet exist. It’s currently being negotiated because of the slim majority Democrats have in the US it needs centrists and liberal factions of the party to agree, which you’d think would be easy… but in a strange political way they’re trying to throwing everything into one bill (childcare/ healthcare/ environment ).

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#132

Post by maceurt » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

From my understanding it is almost certainly a lost cause at this point. I am not a scientist so I do not know for certain, but from what I have read at this stage even if we halt greenhouse gas emissions to zero it still won't be enough to stop the drastic changes to the Earth caused by high CO2 levels. We would have to actively removing CO2 to have any sort of chance at preventing the worse problems associated with Global Warming. Not to mention the amount of other pollutants we have released such as plastic/ microplastic that have been and continue to, disturb the ecosystem of our planet.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#133

Post by the-dude » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #98

the-dude wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first time I have seen the word labor used in the context of US politics.

Really? The unions hold a lot of power, even today. That’s why the federal and California vaccine mandates have huge carve outs for the unions. The Democrats know who butters their bread and they’re willing to give them a pass knowing they’ll retain their votes next election.

Really. Unions, of course. But labor? No.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#134

Post by mkr-hn » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:21 AM UTC

maceurt wrote: post #132

asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

From my understanding it is almost certainly a lost cause at this point. I am not a scientist so I do not know for certain, but from what I have read at this stage even if we halt greenhouse gas emissions to zero it still won't be enough to stop the drastic changes to the Earth caused by high CO2 levels. We would have to actively removing CO2 to have any sort of chance at preventing the worse problems associated with…

There's a scale to the catastrophe that's coming, and that's still within our control.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#135

Post by someotherperson » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:23 AM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #46

asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

Americans (and Australians) will never accept any changes that negatively impact their lives or wallets. Especially when the consequences of climate change are not clear and present. As democracies, we will simply vote out any government that asks us to change our ways. I think Covid19 demonstrates how resistant people are to change, and that they are not willing to make sacrifices for the greater good. Nearly 700,00…

> Americans (and Australians) will never accept any changes that negatively impact their lives or wallets. Especially when the consequences of climate change are not clear and present. As democracies, we will simply vote out any government that asks us to change our ways

I'm at a loss for words here. The most lauded Australian prime minister of the last 30 years is the one that banned firearms, dragged Australia into the Middle East, started offshore detention and introduced a value-added tax on everything from drinks to tampons. People have literally been elected on promises of destroying internet infrastructure.

The problem Australia has is exclusively to do with every single political group (including the Greens) being anti-environmental and peddling conspiracy theories about things like nuclear and hydroelectric. It has nothing to do with what Australians will or won't accept -- Australia has arguably the world's most docile, suggestible population. It has everything to do with political incompetence and an extreme, unhinged focus on being electable.

> I think Covid19 demonstrates how resistant people are to change, and that they are not willing to make sacrifices for the greater good.

Australians have endured some of the longest, strictest lockdowns, and are on track to have one of the world's highest vaccination rates.

I'm really not sure why you seem to be pinning this on the population.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#136

Post by dvhh » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:23 AM UTC

asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

Like using more nuclear power ?

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#137

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:26 AM UTC

dvhh wrote: post #136

asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

Like using more nuclear power ?

A simple tax on fossil fuels raising the price of fuel to $10 is $20 per gallon should do nicely. If not, keep going up.

To prevent it affecting poor people disproportionately, give poorer people cash.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#138

Post by AussieWog93 » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:26 AM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #119

fdschoeneman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that Americans and Australians have proven over and over again that they will accept changes that negatively impact their lives and wallets, most recently the voluntary and involuntary changes that negatively affected their lives and wallets due to COVID-19.

I realize it was a little disrespectful of me to dismiss the many people who have made huge sacrifices to help prevent the virus both here in Australia and the US. The lockdowns have been very tough, and many businesses ruined. I'm in a two week quarantine after a close contact in a supermarket right now. I should have suggested that "some" people will not change, and they will be very vocal. Many politicians will wa…

Australia and America definitely differed in the case of COVID-19.

There was huge support for lockdown and restrictions here for a long time, and only just in the last few weeks is compliance becoming an issue in Melbourne (but not so much elsewhere). Turns out a year of social restrictions causes fatigue.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#139

Post by refurb » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:26 AM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #133

refurb wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The unions hold a lot of power, even today. That’s why the federal and California vaccine mandates have huge carve outs for the unions. The Democrats know who butters their bread and they’re willing to give them a pass knowing they’ll retain their votes next election.

Really. Unions, of course. But labor ? No.

So you’re saying unions don’t represent labor?

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#140

Post by lucidguppy » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:27 AM UTC

dvhh wrote: post #136

asaddhamani wrote: post #11

We need “unprecedented measures” to stop and reverse the “unprecedented” damage we have caused to the planet and its climate. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. Yes, the proposed changes might be inconvenient but it’s time we suck it up and do the needful. Small steps are not good enough. We need drastic measures.

Like using more nuclear power ?

Nuclear power can't come online fast enough. We shouldn't needlessly decommission plants like Germany did.

There's an opportunity cost here - we need to make "power plant factories" rather than just "power plants". So if we could make green energy factories and nuke plant factories, that would be better than making one off nuke plants that take so long to get approved.