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Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

klimaticket.at

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Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#41

I lived in Austria for a couple of years in the late 2000s. They had an under 25 years of age ticket that was similar to this, but was very inexpensive. I think less than 50 Euros. It may have only been during the summer months though. Either way I traveled all over Austria and it cost me almost nothing. Wish I could be 25 again just for that.

Yes, it was/is for only the duration of the summer (school) break.

Has some very weird constraints regarding borders when combining with the eurorail/interrail though.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#42
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, yes, but that's like saying "all you can eat" buffets are unfair. The only "fix" would be to never offer fixed-rate pricing. It's a strange complaint, to me.

If there's a buffet that serves a caviar and I only eat unpeeled cucumbers, then I'm not likely to go to that buffet.

Agreed. Many consumers will still pay-as-you-go. I fail to see the problem.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#43

I really want this to exist for Belgium. Right now the public transport prices are absurd here... An all year pass for just the train in all of Belgium ranges in the 10k eur/year, and there is no national metro+bus+tram access (just Brussels is 700 EUR / year for that with no access to other cities). It's absurd and caused by fragmentation of services between Flanders, wallonia and Brussels with no coordination betwe…

As an American I had always heard that public transportation was super inexpensive in essentially all of Western Europe. Is that not the case generally?

700€/year is about 60€/month, which is fairly typical for a regional monthly public transport pass. Considering we pay around 7 USD/gal for fuel (1.6€/l), if your work is more than about 30 car-minutes away it's cheaper to commute by public transit (assuming you park for free). And that's not even considering that you might be able to have fewer cars in the household: just owning the car is a lot more expensive than the transit pass.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#44
I'm an American who studied abroad in France for a bit a decade ago and did a little traveling around Europe, including to Austria. The Austrian train system was the best by far even without Klimaticket. Specifically, you bought a ticket that entitled you to a set number of kilometers and you could use it any time in the month. Moreover, the trains actually ran on time and customer service was helpful. By comparison, under the French system, the trains were often late, the customer service was almost hostile, and your ticket was for a specific train and if you missed it for whatever reason you were out of luck.

This was a really big deal for me because the French government had just reneged on their commitment to pay my ~650 euro/month rent just a week or two before I arrived and consequently I chose to skip meals to save up a bit to make a couple of trips to Austria to Austria to visit my then-girlfriend-now-wife (I went from 175lbs to an unhealthy 140lbs over my 5-month stay).

As a parenthetical, when I was planning to fly to Austria from Paris, I put my luggage in a 24-hour locker in Gare du Nord the evening before the early-morning flight, but the room the locker was in was closed from 10pm to 6am and the flight left CDG at 7am, so I was devastated when I had to eat the cost of the flight ticket. I begged the staff to unlock the door for me in my best, most polite French, but they would invariably say "c'est impossible" (in my experience, this is what almost all French employees would say to any request which wasn't strictly in their job description, including asking for directions which made it all the more shocking when I would ask an Austrian employee in English for some help and they were positively eager to assist, even if their English was not very good).

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#45

I like what Montpellier (France) is doing, which is a phased approach towards all public transportation free. For now it's for under 18 yo and 65+ yo, and all weekends for everyone, with a phase 3 total gratuity in 2023. I prefer to choose and accordingly pay for my long distance travels, but in the city trips consume a lot of money, on a personal / family level, which is nice to see reduced. And who doesn't want to…

>but in the city trips consume a lot of money

I'm a big proponent of affordable public transport, but I don't understand the benefit of gratuity.

As far as I know, the threats of the ongoing biodiversity collapse are bigger threat than that of climate change (see https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/10/climate/biodiversity-coll...).

It's crucial to both increase density (to limit urban sprawl, which requires that people travel less) and leave the individual ICE car area.

Gratuity of public transport incentivizes taking the bus/train, but it also removes the cost barrier of long-distance transport when deciding where to live and work. If it costs the same to commute:

1. 15 min by foot from work if you live in a small flat

2. 40 min by public transport if you enjoy in a nice little home

We may get more people in buses but we'll eat the Earth faster. Destroying/framgmenting natural habitats will have to bear a market cost, or we must put a hard limit to urban sprawling (which ends up having the same impact on people's finance as it will increase the cost of living far from city center).

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#46

In Germany you can buy a Bahncard 100 for roughly 4k, which allows you to take any Deutsche Bahn train at any time. Not sure if the cost should scale with size of counrty, but I guess 4x is roughly reasonable between Austria and Germany. Austria probably is more expensive to build railroad in, since it's mostly mountains.

Just for comparison: For commuting 40km to a city in Germany including public transport in the city, I have to pay around 1.800,- EUR per year. It is expected that the Austrian 'Klimaticket' will include also the public transport in the whole Eastern region (i.e. Vienna and all surroundings). This is much better than what you could get in Germany at the moment.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#47

Some context here: previously there was no single ticket you could get for public transport in Austria like you could in Switzerland. There was a yearly ticket for the national rail services but that was it. With this ticket you can hop into any public transport now from long distance rail to local city trams.

> from long distance rail to local city trams. That's the part that makes a system like this subjectively unfair. If my daily commute is a handful of bus stops and that guy's is a train for an hour from another city, then I am basically funding his commute by overpaying for my pass... even if it's cheaper to ride my bus with a pass than to buy a ticket for every ride. Edit - I read the website as saying that this is…

A look at this classic Viennese ticket machine would convince most people that paying more to never touch it again is not only fair but necessary and effectively a discount:

https://live.staticflickr.com/1096/1427525859_9f6fcf046f_k.j...

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#48
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify : In Switzerland, one can buy a CA Travelcard (for CHF3860 a year, approximately $3850). With this card, one can travel on (nearly) all public transports in Switzerland (trains, coaches, subways, trams, etc.) free of charge. Since the public transportation system is very good, it's a good way to travel.

Ok, so the Austrian version costs less than a third of that for a considerably larger country. And the public transportation system is pretty good in Austria too...

... it's Switzerland. Everything is 3x more expensive and salaries are 4x higher. Just don't travel there.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#49

Next stop: Just make public transport free for all reasonably permanent residents (for example, you could get a free ticket for next year when you file your taxes). Anyone who rides public transport instead of expensive and polluting cars is doing a service for the environment.

Maybe introduce a gradual shift instead over 50 years or so: with each next year taking the originally expected profits of public transport and gradually add those as taxes for cars while at the same time also reducing the current public transport ticket prices?

At the end of those 50 years public transportation could be free and the stubborn car owners or businesses would simply help subsidize more efficient ways of transportation.

Maybe allow reduced taxes for electric vehicles at the same time.

In the end, it wouldn't be much different than the subsidized meat production with artificially lowered meat prices in the US, nor would anyone care much about small increases like that on a year by year basis.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#50

I really want this to exist for Belgium. Right now the public transport prices are absurd here... An all year pass for just the train in all of Belgium ranges in the 10k eur/year, and there is no national metro+bus+tram access (just Brussels is 700 EUR / year for that with no access to other cities). It's absurd and caused by fragmentation of services between Flanders, wallonia and Brussels with no coordination betwe…

As an American I had always heard that public transportation was super inexpensive in essentially all of Western Europe. Is that not the case generally?

No, not really. Public transport in the cities in the US that I've been to that had public transport (NYC, Chicago, DC, Seattle) cost about the same or less then I would expect to pay in most major European cities.
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