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Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

arstechnica.com

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#111
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could have just stopped at rich. Money helps anyone going through the US Justice system, regardless of color.

The data backs it up [1]. Sentencing disparities based on race in the United States are undeniable. [1]: https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/141027_iachr...

There's always someone that has to make sure no one is being unfair to white people

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any lawyers here - is the general consensus that she is going to jail for a long time?

Not a lawyer or legal expert. But American juries are generally unpredictable and overwhelming evidence doesn't always decide cases (look at the O.J Simpson trial or more recently Bill Cosby or the first Epstein case). I think the general consensus is that there's a lot of damning evidence against her and there's a good chance she'll be found guilty. But a lot depends on how effective her defense is in swaying the ju…

There wasn't overwhelming evidence in the Cosby case, which is precisely why his conviction was overturned. He was convicted based on testimony he was forced to give against himself in a civil trial where he was not allowed to exercise his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. The previous DA specifically said there wasn't enough evidence to convict Cosby, which is both why he never pursued charges and why Cosby was forced to testify against himself (without the threat of criminal indictment, he didn't have the right against self-incrimination on the civil suit).

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#114
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird. The thing is, the primary goal of an investor is not to invest in companies that are honest and actually do what they claim. The goal is to invest in a company that reaches a valuation high enough to let them recoup their investment at a profit. If that valuation happens throug…

Can you provide any examples of a high-profile company, ultimately shown to be dishonest, where the early investors were able to “cash out” before this dishonesty became known?

Enron, for one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron#Peak_and_decline_of_stoc...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#115

The crazy thing about Theranos is that so many people with experience in microfluidics (developed mainly for DNA sequencing although there are other uses) knew that their claims were impossible, technologically speaking. Working with such small volumes to obtain quantitive estimates of blood chemistry is so implausible, as you are introducing uncontrollable variability - micro-evaporation, even tissue localization is…

> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were

You have confused gullibility with willful ignorance.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#116

I recommend the "Bad Blood: The Final Chapter" podcast by John Carreyrou. He's the journalist who broke the story and the podcast goes into some detail about the history and also talks about what is going on now.

Or read his book! It's fabulous.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#117
post #103

The famous picture of her taking reporters into the machine shop is one example. “Touring the machine shop” is an old trick when you want to waste time and not show anyone anything. Technically naive people don’t realize that modern machines each have a computer attached to them, and there is little proprietary in most shops.

I think it also makes for compelling pictures, which was her primary goal at all times: marketing.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird. The thing is, the primary goal of an investor is not to invest in companies that are honest and actually do what they claim. The goal is to invest in a company that reaches a valuation high enough to let them recoup their investment at a profit. If that valuation happens throug…

But in the end, it's such a gamble that I'm skeptical any of the investors knew or suspected fraud when they initially invested. I've heard of exits for companies without a business model or revenue, but how many companies have an exit event (e.g. get acquired or IPO) with no product at all?

> I've heard of exits for companies without a business model or revenue, but how many companies have an exit event (e.g. get acquired or IPO) with no product at all?

Depends on your definition of "no product at all" but it happens all the time in biotech.

Most biotech companies don't have a product until FDA approval because they can't legally sell anything (unless it's a product other biotech/pharma companies can use for their own R&D).

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#119
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird. The thing is, the primary goal of an investor is not to invest in companies that are honest and actually do what they claim. The goal is to invest in a company that reaches a valuation high enough to let them recoup their investment at a profit. If that valuation happens throug…

Can you provide any examples of a high-profile company, ultimately shown to be dishonest, where the early investors were able to “cash out” before this dishonesty became known?

Most, if not all SPACs.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that successful startups often start out claiming that which is impossible. Uber was impossible, because it was illegal. Amazon was impossible, as you couldn't pack and ship stuff that cheaply. Personal computers were at one point considered ludicrous.

This is the sort of pseudo-tech BS that she fed everyone. She had Jobs envy and thought his approach would work everywhere. All those examples (and all of yours) are from computers. Blood tests are different from computers. You cannot assume that, just because great things happened with computers, the same things can happen in all walks of life.

The Jobs presentation thing did work - much of the audience bought into it early on - combined with the hefty bonus points of her being a woman in Silicon Valley that the media was desperate to elevate as a path blazing icon (so desperate they entirely drank the kool-aid and acted as a valuable reinforcement pillar for the fraud, and largely failed to investigate if Theranos was legitimate).

Jobs had follow-through, he had real products that often lived up to his pitching. His salesmanship was merely half the equation. Holmes only had a poor clone of that salesmanship, with none of the product. Had Theranos had real products, the approach she used in trying to quasi copy the Jobs image/presentation, would have served the promotional purpose effectively, as the media loved it.

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