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Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

peguero.xyz

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Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#121

Post by numpad0 »

bgro wrote: post #106
numpad0 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an easy way to truly defuse various web APIs and anonymize browsers wrt that, except IP? I seem to be maintaining an almost globally unique setup for years judging by various browser privacy awareness tests, despite being a completely uninteresting person. Should I, for example, use Docker containerized browser exclusively, or somehow use Selenium for all browsing traffic, or do something else drastic to tha…

There's so many gotcha-holes that it's nearly impossible to get them all and still have a usable browser. Security updates are also going to keep you updating, and those introduce new unique identity problems. Is there any way to be fully be anonymous online? No. The best you could do is Tor on a privacy focused operating system on a disposable computer on public wifi, but there are still loose ways to track that act…

Yeah that will be the standard answer... However I don't have much issues with IPs, what I have problems with is browser. A disposable computer on a public Wi-Fi still gives out your computer model and potentially allows identification for your unique machine.

I'm aware that server admins are able to get WHOIS on my IP and run triangulation by latency, which I can decline by doing that throwaway-laptop-cash-paid-gloved-hand-Tor-over-free-wifi-Guy-Fawkes pretention, if need be. But my priority is to get a "clean" browser that are indistinguishable from anything.

Sucks it ain't easy in 2021.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#122

Post by dang-guefever »

omnicognate wrote: post #13
dang-guefever wrote: post #3

As someone with more time, I prefer to maintain a massive whitelist for my router. Daily websites receive permanent privileges, incidental websites (such as peguero.xyz) receive temporary privileges (e.g. allow traffic for the next minute), everything else is dropped. I don't have to worry about what chicanery advertising companies are up to when they can't reach me even if they tried. "So the fourth herd of deer too…

How do you implement that? I have a whitelisting transparent proxy for my kids (contrary to the popular meme around here that all kids are NSA grade hackers determined to defy your every attempt to protect them, it's uncontroversial in my house and works very well). I use squid for that and have a shonky web UI I made to access the logs and update the whitelist acl. I'd like to make it more capable (stuff like tempor…

I use adblock on openwrt with a basic script to write to and revert the whitelist, and to restart dnsmasq. I use qutebrowser and made whitelisting a hints shortcut.

There's almost certainly a better system, but this works for me.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#123

Post by xahrepap »

fungiblecog wrote: post #111
jklinger410 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there some other solution to this tracking proliferation? Not in capitalist countries. Serving someone an ad that is actually relevant to them is good business. The government doesn't need web cookies to find you, they can just call your ISP or your phone carrier, or check surveillance cameras, ask your bank, so-on. No one from these private companies has the time to look at the data, you are just a number to th…

> But the ads you see online are going to suck. Even with all the profiling the ads still suck. It amazes me how little insight all this profiling actually gives advertisers. Sure they advertise stuff to me that I'm already searching for, but advertising is supposed to be about brining in new customers. Not advertising a product to me after I've already decided what I want, searched for it, and bought it (or decided…

> Even with all the profiling the ads still suck.

It seems silly to me as well. But when it comes down to it, they serve the ads that pay the most, right? So perhaps all the fancy machine learning and all the other garbage is just a way to say to their customers, "Hey, advertise with us, look at all this fancy stuff!"

and then someone comes along and says, "hey, we'll pay more than any other relevant ad..." and POOF. All of it doesn't matter anymore. At the end of the day, it's about getting the dimes in the right pockets.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#124

Post by freen »

jklinger410 wrote: post #92
cycomanic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you morally justify your work? Do you think this work is valuable? I know I sound confrontational, but I'm seriously wondering about this. In particular because the HN crowd in general has been so highly critical of most adtech, but at the same time a significant portion of people here probably works on it or for one of the companies which are behind it.

I vote with my conscious, but I work for whoever will pay me the most money.

https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/u.osu.edu/dist/0/3357/files/20...

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#125

Post by cloudking »

blakesterz wrote: post #8
marketingtech wrote: post #7

This is cool, but not super useful in 2021. Google and Facebook have already moved their tracking technologies beyond frontend network calls due to a rise in browser-level blocking (browser security policies, international regulations, AdBlock, PiHole, etc). The next generation of tracking tech relies on the backend transfer of data between a website and the ad platform, which is invisible to your own network. It als…

> The next generation of tracking tech relies on the backend transfer of server logs between a website and the ad platform, which is invisible to your own network I've not heard of this, what sites are giving logs to networks?

All Shopify powered sites have the functionality available to send tracking data directly to Facebook via their API, if the merchant enables it. https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/promoting-marketing/analy...

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#126

Post by lilsoso »

jklinger410 wrote: post #46
marketingtech wrote: post #7

This is cool, but not super useful in 2021. Google and Facebook have already moved their tracking technologies beyond frontend network calls due to a rise in browser-level blocking (browser security policies, international regulations, AdBlock, PiHole, etc). The next generation of tracking tech relies on the backend transfer of data between a website and the ad platform, which is invisible to your own network. It als…

As someone who works in ads, this is a spot-on summation of the current state of tracking. And that's without getting into how machine learning can use seemingly unrelated data points to learn more about you than you could imagine. At this point if you have even the most basic connections (US bank account, home owner, gps, insurance, a car) the more sophisticated tracking methods can still learn about you and reach y…

So this means privacy on the internet is now gone?

Can you recommend methods to avoid the tracking?

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#127

Post by dang-guefever »

Yetino wrote: post #29

I have just started to learn differential privacy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_privacy ), and am wondering if the following might be feasible in principle: on the browser level, instead of blocking the trackers, add a certain level of noise to the submitted data. This might form a truce between the end users and the trackers. Through statistics, the trackers might still be able to learn something abou…

https://github.com/dhowe/AdNauseam

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#128

Post by OJFord »

cycomanic wrote: post #85
jklinger410 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works in ads, this is a spot-on summation of the current state of tracking. And that's without getting into how machine learning can use seemingly unrelated data points to learn more about you than you could imagine. At this point if you have even the most basic connections (US bank account, home owner, gps, insurance, a car) the more sophisticated tracking methods can still learn about you and reach y…

So how do you morally justify your work? Do you think this work is valuable? I know I sound confrontational, but I'm seriously wondering about this. In particular because the HN crowd in general has been so highly critical of most adtech, but at the same time a significant portion of people here probably works on it or for one of the companies which are behind it.

Not GP, don't work in ads (actually I think my former colleagues probably think I left because our role pivoted that way) but I'm of the view that 'if I don't someone else will', and so in a way I'd rather learn more about it, maybe be the inside voice to say No this is way too far etc.

It certainly doesn't particularly interest me - maybe there are interesting problems if your big on ML - but I wouldn't turn down the best offer I had just because it was in adtech and I wish it didn't exist to go to anyone.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#129

Post by [deleted] »

3np wrote: post #118
literallyaduck wrote: post #70

Work with your state government to outlaw even consensual tracking, include fines, and make fines also apply to the development staff. The first a step is a "know your developer" act to prevent software creation being anonymous. We have regulation around who can practice medicine, practice law, provide the same regulations to software. Remove the license for developers, business analysts, tech writers and project man…

Code is speech. Your proposed law sounds more draconian and dangerous to free thought than the thing it’s supposed to prevent, and can be abused to have the opposite effect of what your intentions are. We need more general technical literacy, not further increasing the gap between those who have and know between those who don’t. Regulation around tracking, fine, but the consequences seem to far outweigh any benefits…

[deleted]

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#130

Post by Nextgrid »

jklinger410 wrote: post #101
chitowneats wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that you would vote for a candidate who promised to impose meaningful regulations on your industry? Even if that meant harming a company you work for / may have equity in? Is there some other solution to this tracking proliferation? My question assumes you believe the work your industry is doing is unethical but that seems to be implied by your posts.

> Is there some other solution to this tracking proliferation? Not in capitalist countries. Serving someone an ad that is actually relevant to them is good business. The government doesn't need web cookies to find you, they can just call your ISP or your phone carrier, or check surveillance cameras, ask your bank, so-on. No one from these private companies has the time to look at the data, you are just a number to th…

> as a tax to use all of the free services you have access to.

The problem is that the current economics make it more profitable to operate an ad-supported product than a paid product.

Regulation that would make ads less profitable would allow paid products to actually compete on price.

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