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Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

theguardian.com

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Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#101

Post by pjc50 »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #50

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities. Take for example the Chinese beef being labeled as premium New Zealand beef and sold for much higher prices in supermarkets. If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. That specific Chine…

> If that beef producer was aware that his beef is selling at a much higher retail price, then he should be selling his product to the wholesaler at a much higher price

You can't be a retail beef producer in China boldly claiming to produce New Zealand beef. The value-enhancing fraud has to happen a bit higher up the chain.

> If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis

Provenance matters even if the difference is undetectable.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#102

Post by stickfigure »

pessimizer wrote: post #65
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your equating prison in the US to the camps in Xinjiang?

Or equating forced prison labor to forced prison labor.

So you're saying that being a Uighur is an equivalent crime to committing robbery or assault?

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#103

Post by fay59 »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #50

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities. Take for example the Chinese beef being labeled as premium New Zealand beef and sold for much higher prices in supermarkets. If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. That specific Chine…

Meat produced in New Zealand might be more sustainable, or ethically farmed, or have a smaller environmental transportation footprint if you’re in New Zealand, than meat from somewhere else. People paying premium for meat may be interested in all of these things—in fact, they may be interested in these things even over the taste of the meat.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#104

Post by stickfigure »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #50

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities. Take for example the Chinese beef being labeled as premium New Zealand beef and sold for much higher prices in supermarkets. If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. That specific Chine…

The quality of natural products like beef is probabilistic. You might not be able to tell a poor example of a premium product from a good example of a low-end brand. And if you buy infrequently, you might not know what you're missing.

Just because the scam works doesn't mean there isn't a perceptible difference.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#105

Post by kiklion »

rapjr9 wrote: post #60

From the article: "If the elements in the soil and water of a region work their way into the plants grown there, they also work their way into our bodies when we eat the produce of those plants, or when we eat the meat of animals fed on those plants. We ingest these elements, process them, and use them to build flesh, teeth and bones. So the elements making up our bodies can tell us something about the food we’ve eat…

> Western medicine has largely ignored environmental effects.

I wouldn’t say they ignored it, instead environmental effects aren’t in scope to medicine. If your doctor said ‘you live on Long Island so you have a higher chance of breast cancer, combined with your family history, I advise you to sell everything and move your family.’ The vast majority of people are going yo ignore that.

Even if you have the means to move, your doctor can’t quantify your local ties and relationships in a meaningful way to determine if increased risks from the environment are worth it.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#106

Post by adewinter »

willcipriano wrote: post #62
kaesar14 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be paid market rate for their labor. Why should prison take away your basic financial rights. Edit: it's disgusting to me that anyone downvoted this. what do you believe, if not that people have a right to the fruits of their labor, even as criminals? believing otherwise is believing in slavery and exploitation.

It shouldn't also take away from the rights of others. When prison labor is obtained below minimum wage, or under conditions or terms that workers would not accept, you hurt low income workers and drive down their wages in aggregate. In my opinion, prison labor should only be used for public works. Cleaning up parks and that sort of thing. Giving a captive labor stream to private enterprise is only good for the owner…

I agree with the sentiment but it should be pointed out that even public works have to pay their workers at market rates when there are no forced laborers (so: most of the time). Throwing a bunch of forced laborers at public works kind of screws over the average Joe that used to do that for pay.

So, like you say, it shouldn't take away from the rights of others. Just pay the prisoners just like you'd pay any other worker regardless of the kind of job.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#107

Post by 908B64B197 »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #50

This is an interesting article. It also makes me think that this kind of analysis presents a lot of opportunities. Take for example the Chinese beef being labeled as premium New Zealand beef and sold for much higher prices in supermarkets. If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be. That specific Chine…

> If shoppers can't tell the difference without this analysis, then it implies that the price differential between these two products is larger than it should be.

But their bodies might.

Standards for meat are much higher in New Zealand than in China. I would be curious to have a health inspector take a look at the facilities where the beef was produced and handled...

Let's just say the country isn't new to food safety scandals...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chinese-street-vendors-us...

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#108

Post by yorwba »

fakedang wrote: post #85
yorwba wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this Chinese government website might not have been compromised: http://www.chinapeace.gov.cn/chinapeace/c25030/2012-06/19/co... A man surnamed Ibrahim (so probably member of a Turkic Muslim minority) was sentenced to 10 years in prison and a fine of 200,000 RMB for illegally importing and selling illegal religious and/or pirated publications. Whether that's evidence of "China imprisoning populations solely f…

It's very possible though that the guy was selling "illegal" Qurans, prayer mats and incantation beads, all of which are illegal material in Communist China. There's no chance in hell he could have legalized that business whatsoever, simply because the Chinese government does not take a liking to the Muslim faith (partly because they can't control it like they control the churches due to its decentralized nature).

The centralized organisation serving as a conduit between the government and Muslims is the Islamic Association of China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Association_of_China Among other things, it has produced an official translation of the Qur'an, published by China Social Sciences Press http://www.csspw.com.cn/booksclass_159590_1_2__0_issueddate_... If he'd been selling that one, it would've been unproblematic. (But also unlikely to be very profitable.)

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#110

Post by dkarl »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #68
jdavis703 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a lot of cases we can taste the difference. Organic vs. conventional chicken has a different mouthfeel. And Wagyu Beef vs. regular beef also has a similar different feel. However I also buy free-range organic eggs and milk. I’d have no idea if those products were mislabeled. But it also makes me feel better I’m not contributing to cruel factory farming and antibiotic abuse. If that’s not the case, oh well. I did a…

You can't pass off non-Wagyu beef as Wagyu beef unless the consumer doesn't know what Wagyu beef is. I totally disagree with the organic vs conventional chicken argument. I would suggest that the difference you notice is the breed of the chicken. Organic vs non-organic and free-range vs non-free-range is not something where you'd say that there is an information arbitrage opportunity. The concept was that this analys…

It could also be the brine pumped into the non-organic chicken. I don't know if pumping brine into chicken affects its organic status or not, but the organic chickens I see at the store do not have brine or chicken broth listed as ingredients, while the non-organic ones do.
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