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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#321

Post by BoxOfRain »

michaelanckaert wrote: post #228
reitzensteinm wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used. The thermals are awful under moderate CPU use, the fan spins when using an external monitor, the battery vampire drains when it's shut for an extended time instead of saving memory to disk and shutting off. I think what really happens is people compare $1k Dells with $3k Apples. I'm looking forward to an M1X MBP, though. That may legitima…

Posted in another comment thread, but my MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014) has been awesome! No issues, no repairs or replacements and still going strong. Maybe I got lucky but I really hope my next machine (probably going to buy the next 16" pro) will last as long.

I'm still dailying a 2015 MacBook Pro and I've literally only started considering upgrading in the next year or so. Apple have their faults, but the hardware isn't bad at all in my opinion.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#322

Post by mrguyorama »

nosianu wrote: post #254
kblev wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows keeps waking up for random things, the problem is getting worse with every Windows release and Microsoft keeps removing more and more controls. Just a few days ago I spent hours trying to fix the constant wake-ups. This time it was a waketimer set by the StartMenuExperienceHost.exe process! [1] Microsoft already removed the Power Management tabs in Device Manager for most devices (mouse, etc.). They also remo…

> Windows keeps waking up for random things, the problem is getting worse with every Windows release I resorted to removing the power plug from the PC every evening after it kept turning itself on during the night semi-randomly. It was in "suspend to disk" mode, whatever that is in more technical power-save jargon terms, not just "suspend-to-ram". I spent a significant amount of time going through Windows event logs…

What REALLY pisses me off is that if I put my computer to sleep for the night, and windows then runs some updates, it doesn't put the computer back to sleep! Why not? Why should it run all night instead of going back to sleep, what the hell microsoft

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#323

Post by stagger87 »

sbakzbsmx wrote: post #319
daggersandscars wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thermal sensors measure temperature in specific points / small areas. There are a finite number of these and they do not cover the entire CPU / GPU / motherboard / etc. If one puts a massive load on a CPU, the temperature spikes quickly and widely across enough of the die that the sensors work as expected and the system throttles / shuts down. If one puts a small load on the CPU for a long period of time, areas that…

A single sensor by the exhaust fan would be an excellent proxy for the T anywhere in the laptop. The really hot stuff have sensors themselves, so if anything else is hot it will be revealed in the exhaust

An exhaust fan doesn't work in a bag.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#324

Post by boardwaalk »

kblev wrote: post #188
zelphirkalt wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something OS specific: Windows has some setting to wake up when a WLAN connection is available. I had this issue once, that I hibernated it, put it in a bag and went home. On the way it must have picked up some WLAN somewhere and have turned on, while in my bag, while the lid is closed, while hibernated ... And I believe this was the standard setting. I mean, who in their right mind wants their laptop to tur…

Windows keeps waking up for random things, the problem is getting worse with every Windows release and Microsoft keeps removing more and more controls. Just a few days ago I spent hours trying to fix the constant wake-ups. This time it was a waketimer set by the StartMenuExperienceHost.exe process! [1] Microsoft already removed the Power Management tabs in Device Manager for most devices (mouse, etc.). They also remo…

> Windows keeps waking up for random things

Mine will wake the screen and make "device connected" and "device disconnected" sounds while the computer isn't sleeping, regularly. Besides being annoying (I eventually disabled those specific sounds), it probably meaningfully hurts the lifespan of my monitors to power cycle them every five freakin' minutes.

I've never been able to figure out what exactly is happening here, trawling through event logs and such (I'm no Windows guru nor do I want to be).

At this point, in my particular case, Linux actually feels more "hardware compatible" than Windows. It can keep the monitors off.

I really wish Windows was good enough to not raise my blood with things like this, because sometimes you just need to use it.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#325

Post by jerf »

daggersandscars wrote: post #294
jerf wrote: post #270

OK, so, overheating the laptop stresses it and will eventually damage it. Got it. Easy to understand. Question. What is it about "being in a bag" that destroys the thermal handling? I've had my laptop in my lap spontaneously power off when it gets too hot. (Which itself makes me a bit crabby about why it didn't successfully throttle down until it could at least keep running, but that's a separate gripe.) Why doesn't…

Thermal sensors measure temperature in specific points / small areas. There are a finite number of these and they do not cover the entire CPU / GPU / motherboard / etc. If one puts a massive load on a CPU, the temperature spikes quickly and widely across enough of the die that the sensors work as expected and the system throttles / shuts down. If one puts a small load on the CPU for a long period of time, areas that…

Thank you. Good point.

I still wonder if machines should be designed to deal with this, and would still be tempted to call it a "warranty issue" that they didn't handle a scenario they're clearly aware of.

On the other hand it would also be very nice if software just didn't decide it can unsuspend a laptop whenever, and then apparently do hours of work without ever re-suspending, so... I guess you could say I've got enough blame to ladle around for everybody.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#326

Post by jorgesborges »

JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

Serious question — why do people so frequently sleep rather than shut down? Is it to save time on booting up? Is it because you want other processes running? All of the pain points below are reasons why I just always shut down. I think I developed the habit at a time when sleep just never worked on my linux machine though, but that was years ago now. I’m speechless reading below that Windows wakes just to install updates… and then remains awake!

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#328

Post by kitsunesoba »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #129
JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

There is something OS specific: Windows has some setting to wake up when a WLAN connection is available. I had this issue once, that I hibernated it, put it in a bag and went home. On the way it must have picked up some WLAN somewhere and have turned on, while in my bag, while the lid is closed, while hibernated ... And I believe this was the standard setting. I mean, who in their right mind wants their laptop to tur…

For desktops at least, Wake on LAN is still a setting in EFI/BIOS. On my AMD desktop using a high end ASUS motherboard (Dark Hero), I switched that off along with a couple things that looked like a WoL setting in Windows, and that PC has stayed asleep all night ever since.

I haven't seen this behavior from my ThinkPad X1 Nano, but that may be because it shuts itself down entirely after being closed for an hour or two without being connected to a power source.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#329

Post by Mister_Snuggles »

jorgesborges wrote: post #326
JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

Serious question — why do people so frequently sleep rather than shut down? Is it to save time on booting up? Is it because you want other processes running? All of the pain points below are reasons why I just always shut down. I think I developed the habit at a time when sleep just never worked on my linux machine though, but that was years ago now. I’m speechless reading below that Windows wakes just to install upd…

I prefer to put my computer to sleep rather than shut it down. Closing the lid on my computer, putting it in my backpack, and heading home for the day is very natural. When I get back to work the next day, I open it up connect the cables, scan my fingerprint, and everything's back where I left it. I usually go at least a month between reboots, but that's highly dependant on when updates come out (and get approved by work, of course).

This is on a Mac though, so (for me anyway) this is something that just works without any fuss.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#330

Post by tinus_hn »

tinus_hn wrote: post #92
guax wrote: post #32

Oh, come on, sleep and hibernation are the "shut down" of a laptop nowadays, you close the lid and shove it into the bag. Its just as absurd as saying you cant put the phone in your pocket unless you fully turn it off.

You’re not really supposed to bring a phone that close to your skin, otherwise you might exceed safe radiation levels.

Amusing to see all the armchair experts denying this. Now take your iPhone, start the Settings app, go to General/Legal & Regulatory/RF exposure and read the text.

You’re not supposed to keep your phone directly against your skin.

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