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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#131

Post by tomp »

sokoloff wrote: post #109
jraph wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the thread just next to your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28640283 It's also Macs. Computers are complicated, some things are probably released with a tight schedule, things are not formally verified, and therefore have bugs. Hardware or software. It's sad but we have to deal with it. Sleep has been working well on Linux on the machines I've been using for the past years (especially after removi…

Tomp was likely talking about the Mac “reopen running apps after reboot” which works very well in terms of putting your state back the way it was. Terminals aren’t fully restored (what would it mean to/how could you restore an ssh connection anyway?), but most apps for most people are.

No, I never reboot my Mac. (For reasonable values of "never", e.g. "once every 3 months".)

ssh connections fail even with just sleep though, obviously.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#132

Post by Macha »

joeberon wrote: post #72
toxik wrote: post #53

The entire fucking point in a laptop is to be portable. If you _have_ to shut it down completely before putting it in a bag, it’s not a laptop as any sane person expects it to have that ability. It’s absolutely astonishing that Dell, Microsoft and friends leave walk over in the laptop industry like this. “Oh we decided users don’t really want to be able to close the lid and go home.” ??????

Not going to lie but Apple have put pretty high standards on what people expect to work with all laptops nowadays, and many OEMs seem unable or unwilling to try to catch up.

This is absolutely a problem on some Macs too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28304628

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#133

Post by neuromancer2600 »

I had a Dell XPS 9310 until about 3 months ago when suddenly one of the fans died on me for no obvious reasons while I was in quarantine. Given that the fans are now soldered onto the mainboard, Dell was offering me to repair this for almost the same amount I paid for the whole laptop 2 years earlier. Needless to say that this was the last time I will buy a Dell.

Since I am located in Asia, I also went to one of the unauthorized repair shops to see if they could offer a cheaper way to get this done. When I walked in, I saw two customers in front of me with Dells. When it was my turn, I also asked which laptop brands are having the most and least issues. Not surprisingly, Lenovo and Dell rank very high. The Taiwanese (Asus, Acer) as well as Razer and hp were considered of higher quality.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#134

Post by jraph »

tomp wrote: post #125
jraph wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the thread just next to your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28640283 It's also Macs. Computers are complicated, some things are probably released with a tight schedule, things are not formally verified, and therefore have bugs. Hardware or software. It's sad but we have to deal with it. Sleep has been working well on Linux on the machines I've been using for the past years (especially after removi…

I've been using macs for the past 10 years, and I've never had this problem. I've never even thought about it! I close the lid, I open it, it just works. Maybe it's just my (2013 Pro and M1 Air), or maybe in the meantime the quality dipped... All in all, as I often say, the best advertisement for Apple is all the other computers. > I've taken the habit of checking that the computer actually went to sleep before putti…

Good for you. You probably happen to use your Macs in a way you don't hit those bugs, and didn't have to deal with faulty hardware. I'm sure things are flawless most of the time too.

My computers also go to sleep reliably. They are professional hardware, of good quality, and from different brands. I'm sure other models of other brands or of the same brands have quirks, or that there are people who have problems with the same hardware/software as mine because they use it differently.

Maybe it's not that much a Mac vs the rest of the world thing. Evidence is that people have problems with any kind of hardware and brands, this is indisputable.

> How would you even do that?

There is usually some led visible somewhere, or a small noise, when the thing failed to fall asleep. You know your computer.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#135

Post by Macha »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #51
undecisive wrote: post #36

Reminds me of the push a while back to rebrand laptops as "notebooks" - because many laptops (esp Dell XPS) are not built with a strong enough backbone to keep their own weight from sagging in the middle, and because they get hot enough to cause damage to legs. I have had an XPS since 2017, it had everything I wanted (I thought) - but I seriously regretted the decision almost immediately. High-intensity tasks (gaming…

Dells were the only laptops I ever encountered that you could bend. It’s amazing anyone other then starving college kids ever used them.

If was certainly the norm for laptops in the €500-700 range from the late 00s to at least a few years ago. Happened to the Acer laptop I used in my college days

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#136

Post by reitzensteinm »

FlyingAvatar wrote: post #128
reitzensteinm wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used. The thermals are awful under moderate CPU use, the fan spins when using an external monitor, the battery vampire drains when it's shut for an extended time instead of saving memory to disk and shutting off. I think what really happens is people compare $1k Dells with $3k Apples. I'm looking forward to an M1X MBP, though. That may legitima…

Regarding the problem discussed in the article, the Dell could easily cost $3,000, and the problem would not exist a $1000 MacBook, even an Intel one. In this case, I think it’s Apple’s proper prioritization of features. Probably also that Apple is able to do this because they don’t have to work on dozens of different models at the same time. It’s amazing to me that no major PC manufacturers have really done this yet…

Don't get me wrong, the Windows laptops I've used had their own list of things too.

The MBP from my perspective is just more of the same. Not better, not worse, but different.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#137

Post by loloquwowndueo »

cies wrote: post #52

XPS should be "developer laptops". They even come with Linux. So I tried two. Never experienced a more faulty keyboard on a computer in my life. Hanging keys, firmware updates that never really fixed the problem, support forums full of same questions. I'll never buy one again. Too bad as I wanted to support "big brand w/ Linux preinstalled".

“ I wanted to support "big brand w/ Linux preinstalled"”

Look at Lenovo maybe :)

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#138

Post by lozenge »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #121
RGamma wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can enable the start menu hibernate button in advanced power settings: System -> Power & sleep -> Additional power settings -> Choose what the power buttons do -> Change settings that are currently unavailable -> Check Hibernate. And then get lucky that your laptop wakes up again (mine dies 1 out of 10 times) Edit: sorry, can't read.

No, you can't; that option is disabled. It cannot be checked. I don't know how I can state this more clearly. "Turn on fast startup (recommended)" is checked, and that option is also disabled and can't be unchecked, despite obviously being undesirable.

Maybe you have Group Policy settings? Sometimes "Windows tweaker" type apps install these. Also, mine has a link "Change settings that are currently unavailable" which shows a UAC prompt and then enables all checkboxes.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#139

Post by Causality1 »

Modern laptops are fucking infuriating this way. I always go over my sleep and shutdown settings, trying to make things as "off" as possible yet they never seem to quite get there. Devices that are supposed to be turned off die overnight. Devices that are supposed to be off still show as connected to the wifi router. It makes you have zero faith in your computer when you do everything you can to turn it off and it still loses most of its charge after a day in your bag.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#140

Post by VortexDream »

JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

It's something about modern standby. I have a laptop with a 10th Gen i7. I put it in my bag once and when I pulled it out after my trip, the fans were running at full blast and the laptop was extremely hot. I'm also fairly sure it damaged the fan because it's never been able to run at higher speeds ever since.

I'm also not sure if it's a bug or something else. I do feel like there's something problematic about modern standby. I didn't have this issue under Linux, which actually does standby properly.

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