EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones • Hacker News Board

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#691

Post by CivBase » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

t43562 wrote: post #497

nickpp wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Existing iPhone owners (and there are a lot of them!) throwing away their Lightning cables/chargers when purchasing a new phone?

A one off cost.

But what's the gain? People will buy just as much electronic crap. It will just have USB-C ports instead of lightning ports.

And it's not like USB 3.1 Type C will be the top end forever. People will still replace their old stuff whenever the next USB spec lands or some fancy new connector is released. It wasn't long ago that Micro USB 2.X was standard.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#692

Post by ClumsyPilot » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #596

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If the EU was really for "fair markets", Dieselgate alone" Dieselgate has resulted in criminal prosecution, remind me how many people went to jaill after 2008? 2?

"Criminal prosecution for Dieselgate" was political theater of the worst kind. It's an example of systemic and institutional corruption and all that has brought was a couple of scapegoats. If the same thing were to happen in a smaller country, say Poland or Czech Republic, it would be grounds for the bigger EU states to bulldoze the plants and to bankrupt the nations. Also, it's the second time that you try to counte…

1 - that could be true

2 - I am not even an EU national

3 - if one is pointing at dieselgate as a failure of EU, there must be a place where such failure doesn't happen. If such a place does not exist, then it's not much of an argument, every system has it's failures. It's not like i am defending WV

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#693

Post by ClumsyPilot » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #583

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Are you also going to push for governments to force Apple to make iPhones with removable batteries?" Kinda - I am pushing my government to force Apple to provide spare parts, and give us right to repair. Make ownership of digital device mean something again. US obsession with choice is a red herring. I don't want sadistic 'choice' between getting going backrupt and dying of a treatable disease, I want the problem…

> Make ownership of digital device mean something again. Then just go buy from someone who actually is behind these values, and not someone who just greenwashes their products. > US obsession Sorry to spoil your ad hominem, but I am born in Brazil and have been living in Germany for 8 years. > I want the problem fixed. The problem is fixed already: I've been having this discussion while typing from a fairphone, which…

"The problem is fixed already: I've been having this discussion while typing from a fairphone"

Congratulations, you are part of the 0.1%. and yet every day millions of unrepairable phones go to landfill, petrol cars are still being produced, coal is still being burned.

Maybe enough is enough, democracy is more impirtant than 'free market'. I want to nail the invisible hand to the cross to make a point.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#694

Post by notacoward » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

midasuni wrote: post #100

endless1234 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be argued that lightning is slightly better, sure. But billions of people use USB-C daily, and even half of Apples product line only has them instead of lightning, so not sure if the difference is that meaningful.

I don’t own a single usbc device, I have lightning on my phone, and tons of microusb-usbA devices/cables “Billions” sounds like a HN bubble statement.

So you cite a sample of N=1 and then claim than anything else must be from within a bubble? Interesting.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#695

Post by toyg » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:16 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #612

toyg wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried the light-touch approach for years (i.e. the previous rulings), and it has improved things but Apple insists in, basically, respecting only the letter of the law and not the spirit - and they are a third of the market. So this time, the Commission came up with a stricter approach. > it’s an order of magnitude more difficult to change that legislation The previous attempt is from 2009. A review every 10-15…

> More than the alternative of doing nothing. Are you sure about that? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28630578

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the move towards less-integrated chargers started after the EU began the standardization process in 2009.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#696

Post by rglullis » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:22 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #693

rglullis wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make ownership of digital device mean something again. Then just go buy from someone who actually is behind these values, and not someone who just greenwashes their products. > US obsession Sorry to spoil your ad hominem, but I am born in Brazil and have been living in Germany for 8 years. > I want the problem fixed. The problem is fixed already: I've been having this discussion while typing from a fairphone, which…

"The problem is fixed already: I've been having this discussion while typing from a fairphone" Congratulations, you are part of the 0.1%. and yet every day millions of unrepairable phones go to landfill, petrol cars are still being produced, coal is still being burned. Maybe enough is enough, democracy is more impirtant than 'free market'. I want to nail the invisible hand to the cross to make a point.

> yet every day millions of unrepairable phones go to landfill, petrol cars are still being produced, coal is still being burned.

Again with the whataboutism? Who are you trying to fool with this lame rhetoric?

You say you want democracy, but what you are preaching is totalitarianism.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#697

Post by toyg » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #676

alpaca128 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the kind of thing that really makes me understand Brexit. It seems a tad inconsistent to be against restrictions on imports but also for the kind of fallout that resulted from Brexit. That makes your understanding of Brexit seem incomplete. And if you don't like price increases on Apple products, don't buy them. That's the only language they understand.

It's not the restrictions on imports that I am against. It is the all-encompassing political bureaucracy that the EU has become and how upside-down its priorities are. > And if you don't like price increases on Apple products, don't buy them. I don't buy them already, but the type of connector they use is way down on my list of reasons not to use them. Closed source? Hard to repair? Exploitative app store practices?…

Note how many of the topics you mention as critical are actually discussed at EU level: GDPR, support for FOSS in various programs, ongoing examination of the appstore monopolistic practices, tax-dodging... And chargers too, yes, if anything because it's a pretty simple thing to mandate.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#698

Post by rglullis » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #692

rglullis wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Criminal prosecution for Dieselgate" was political theater of the worst kind. It's an example of systemic and institutional corruption and all that has brought was a couple of scapegoats. If the same thing were to happen in a smaller country, say Poland or Czech Republic, it would be grounds for the bigger EU states to bulldoze the plants and to bankrupt the nations. Also, it's the second time that you try to counte…

1 - that could be true 2 - I am not even an EU national 3 - if one is pointing at dieselgate as a failure of EU, there must be a place where such failure doesn't happen. If such a place does not exist, then it's not much of an argument, every system has it's failures. It's not like i am defending WV

Every system has failures. That much is a given. The main issue is about scale of these systems and its failure modes.

The problem of "big" systems - whether the EU, modern day US where federal govt taking over power from the states or Communist China - is that it fails in spectacularly catastrophic ways.

This is why you get crisis like 2008 and Dieselgate. Both are instances of "too big to fail" industries, protected by the government and that in the end screw with the people that they claim to serve and protect.

So it doesn't matter that you are not defending VW, or that you are against Apple. The point is that by backing this ever-growing centralization of power and influence by one single political entity, you make the whole system more fragile and easier to be manipulated by those elites that you so loudly claim to be against.

> there must be a place where such failure doesn't happen.

Switzerland. Local governments rule over any attempt at centralization. Direct democracy. Individual freedom but without forced globalization and universalization of values. Not involved in any wars. NOT AN EU MEMBER STATE.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#699

Post by ClumsyPilot » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #696

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem is fixed already: I've been having this discussion while typing from a fairphone" Congratulations, you are part of the 0.1%. and yet every day millions of unrepairable phones go to landfill, petrol cars are still being produced, coal is still being burned. Maybe enough is enough, democracy is more impirtant than 'free market'. I want to nail the invisible hand to the cross to make a point.

> yet every day millions of unrepairable phones go to landfill, petrol cars are still being produced, coal is still being burned. Again with the whataboutism? Who are you trying to fool with this lame rhetoric? You say you want democracy, but what you are preaching is totalitarianism.

It's not whatavoutism, it's problems the ideology of 'choice' couldn't solve for 50 years.

I think you are preaching anarchy.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#700

Post by skydhash » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

elzbardico wrote: post #589

sokoloff wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always amused at people who upgrade to the latest phone regularly and then keep it in a bulky case. Around iPhone 5, I switched to buying 1-year old used phones about every 2-3 years and enjoying them without a case. Only non-minor damage I’ve suffered is I broke the volume down button (the spring behind it, really) on my Xs Max. Minor scratches I don’t care about. I’m pretty amazed at how durable the phones actu…

Cases are overrated. Sure, they may protect from some scratches, but they don't protect agains fall as much as people think, and I think they induce falls by making large phones even more difficult to hold. I bought a IPhone 12 pro max six months ago, never used a case, still looks like new.

I used a cheap silicone case because of the glass (iPhone 8). Without it, the phone just slide on almost anything.