Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

xda-developers.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 751 posts

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#571

Post by toyg »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #387
GordonS wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't. Here the EU is creating legislation that forces manufacturers to increase interoperability, be more consumer-friendly, and more climate friendly. This all seems within the remit of governments to me. > I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything. Or course not, it's not like…

I don’t think anyone is objecting to the motives of the legislation, but rather that it’s unconventional for governments to directly stipulate a technology. Typically they set some parameters that their subjects must comply with. For example, they usually say something like “cars may not emit more than X PPM of carbon monoxide per liter of fuel” rather than “cars shall use technology Y”. It’s not that speculating a t…

They tried the light-touch approach for years (i.e. the previous rulings), and it has improved things but Apple insists in, basically, respecting only the letter of the law and not the spirit - and they are a third of the market. So this time, the Commission came up with a stricter approach.

> it’s an order of magnitude more difficult to change that legislation

The previous attempt is from 2009. A review every 10-15 years or so is not that difficult, when there is widespread political agreement on consumer matters.

> Lastly, is interoperability even a problem?

Before the EU committees stepped in, the market was a jungle of custom adapters. You don't remember the last time you had a problem partially because they forced the market to stop with shenanigans, and most manufacturer complied at least in the most visible sector (phones - stuff like watches is still a jungle, but they are less popular and definitely not as essential as phones). Some convergence was already happening but EU rules accelerated adoption and ensured it would happen across the board. Only Apple insisted in ignoring the spirit of the decision, so this is meant to force their hand somewhat to play ball (while also giving them something, since the unbundled charger was at risk of being challenged as anti-consumer).

> Similarly, are these chargers a major source of e-waste?

Yes.

> And how much of that is this legislation going to change?

More than the alternative of doing nothing.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#572

Post by Kipters »

jhoechtl wrote: post #362
ubercow13 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government already mandates the electricity interconnect one step back at the wall socket. This is just extending that to modern devices.

Just to be clear, power sockets are not standardized in the EU. Italy has different ones (Type L), France as well (Type E), and the UK too (but they are no longer ... you know) ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country

> Italy has different ones (Type L)

Non-ancient sockets in Italy are _bipasso_, meaning they accept both the 16 and 10 A variants of the Type L, and the 10A variant is compatible with the Europlug, making it really a non issue. In households you'll also likely find Type-L compatible Schuko (usually) sockets for higher power devices, or even combo sockets that can work as two _bipasso_ or one Schuko.

So in the end standardization ended up working anyway and no one is struggling because of this (also standards about wire gauges made extension cords safe to use)

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#573

Post by asddubs »

nickpp wrote: post #492

I went through such a transition with my iPad Pro: from Lighting port (like my iPhone) to USB-C. The result was subjectively worse: the USB-C port is harder to insert into as the margins are straight and "catch", while the Lighting port had a slight bevel, making insertion as smooth as butter. The fit is not perfect and touching the inserted cable moves it slightly inside the port. The Lightning connection was rock s…

I do actually agree with these points, lightning is the better connector, but it's proprietary and the other one is a widely used standard, so what are ya gonna do

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#574

Post by Hamuko »

alxhill wrote: post #550
Hamuko wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's charger unbundling was stupid. They sold the iPhone with a USB-A charging brick for like 12 years. Then when the iPhone 11 came out in 2019, it came with a USB-C charging brick and a USB-C to Lightning cable, which would not work with any of the chargers they bundled for the past decade and some. And then, one year after changing the cable, they took away the USB-C charging brick. "Just use the ones you alrea…

I think it's reasonable for Apple to assume that if you kept the old charger, you also had the old cable for it which would also work with the new iPhone.

Then they'd still be shipping e-waste in the form of a cable that you cannot plug into anything.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#575

Post by sudosysgen »

dspillett wrote: post #546
sudosysgen wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's bullshit. You can carry 240W over USB-C. Physical size limits current, not voltage, and you can increase voltage.

Is anyone actually selling devices that can output or consume that yet? IIRC the updated standard was only made public a few months ago. I know some off-spec devices (some XPS laptops for instance) can shovel 130W around where 100W is the usual maximum but I don't remember hearing of any that make use of more. There is another option without that standard too: you could always draw from more than one source. Many USB…

None of them have hit the market yet, indeed. But it's still not an issue for Apple, adding a 48V mode to their USB PD controller is trivial.

Drawing from multiple ports is a good idea! But if you're MacGyvering something, it's much easier to connect the right resistor to the USB C connector and solder the power lines right into a 48V PSU.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#576

Post by [deleted] »

sudosysgen wrote: post #465
nicce wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Apple is moving a way from USB-C-only charger on the next gen laptops, because it does not provide enough power(to get even better charging speed). (Physical size limits that) So, maybe for phones it is enough in the future, but not for all devices.

That's bullshit. You can carry 240W over USB-C. Physical size limits current, not voltage, and you can increase voltage.

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#577

Post by ivoras »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

Think of it as wall plugs. You wouldn't want every device and every power plant to require their own type of plug, right?

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#578

Post by jarcane »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #523
FabHK wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One nice and welcome example of consumer-friendly legislation, btw: The EU prohibited mobile operators from charging voice and data roaming fees within the EU. So, now on holiday in Spain, say, you can just keep using your mobile contract including free minutes and data. (A typical deal is 10 GB data.) When traveling outside the EU, it's still best to buy a local SIM to avoid the ludicrous roaming charges, but there'…

Only partially true, let's not be misleading. It works for short vacations, that's about it. The EU has a so called "fair use policy", that basically give mobile operators the possibility to charge you more when you're more than xx days out of the country of registration (it's more complicated than this, but it's the idea anyway). In my case, traveling often abroad, means I'm constantly hitting this limit which force…

Yup. And there's exceptions galore too. You can just claim that free roaming will cause "financial hardship" and still get away with charging roaming fees anyway. Nearly every provider in Finland immediately applied the exemption and kept charging roaming fees anyway.

Goddamn 2021 and we're still pretending electrons cost more based on distance.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#579

Post by piaste »

beezischillin wrote: post #478
chefkoch wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you have either a very old contract or one of the special no roaming ones.

I renewed five contracts this year, neither of them had the same amount of data for roaming as they did for local. Calls and SMS, they did (unlimited, basically). This seems to be the norm for Orange here. I would assume the same goes for Vodafone since they generally seemed to always offer less for more. That being said, it's absolutely lovely to be able to travel for business or holiday and to be able to find your…

If memory serves, the amount of roaming data you get is computed on the basis of 'what would you get if you paid roughly the same amount of money to a typical provider in the country where I am travelling', with some caps in both directions.

I live in Italy which has low prices, so I get 50 GB/mo for 8€ (and 200 GB/mo during the summer). Last summer I travelled to Austria and Czechia, I had 4GB available in both countries, and indeed checking their biggest ISPs' landing pages it looks like 8€ wouldn't have bought me even a gig! So 4GB is probably a mandatory minimum.

Post reply on HN