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EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

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Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#621

Post by alpaca128 »

rglullis wrote: post #398
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would block all shipments of Apple devices at the border of the EU after a certain point. The EU controls the customs rules for most of Europe.

So, it's the latter. They will have another excuse to increase the prices further. "We had to spend $BILLIONS to change the design of the iPhone, so this is why the new iPhone EU Edition is going to be 1400€". This is the kind of thing that really makes me understand Brexit.

> This is the kind of thing that really makes me understand Brexit.

It seems a tad inconsistent to be against restrictions on imports but also for the kind of fallout that resulted from Brexit. That makes your understanding of Brexit seem incomplete.

And if you don't like price increases on Apple products, don't buy them. That's the only language they understand.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#622

Post by Turing_Machine »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #584
ravenstine wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on how far you want it to go. If electric sockets aren't standard then that creates bottlenecks in infrastructure interchangeability. To me, I don't see why government has any business in USB. Bluetooth maybe since it takes up the air. But USB? It's bad enough that wall sockets haven't improved. Will we be stuck with USB-C long after its natural EOL?

"It's bad enough that wall sockets haven't improved" In what way, spesifically? What can you improve in a metal connector carrying current?

I'd like to see positive clamping (perhaps by means of a mechanical camming action) rather than relying on the springiness of metal contacts, which inevitably degrades over time due to metal fatigue.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#623

Post by alpaca128 »

jollybean wrote: post #557
toyg wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody forces you to buy a consumer-unfriendly product that also happens to be arbitrarily expensive. If somebody in Milan can't afford a Ferrari made in Maranello because the damn company insists in pricing their cars beyond what is reasonable for a 4-wheeled vehicle, it doesn't mean Milan should secede from Italy, surely.

This purview that an iPhone is 'consumer unfriendly' is a hint of the arrogance that drives irresponsible legislation. Literally the most profitable product in history, that 100's of millions of Europeans - including literally probably most of EU government - want so badly they pay a very high price. 'But it's unfriendly!' No, it's not. Apple has 100x more credibility than most other parties on what a 'consumer frien…

Perhaps what you meant is "user friendly". Yes, iPhones are user friendly. No product Apple sells right now, however, is consumer friendly. Not even remotely.

One glance at their history of handling product flaws, repair costs and their tendency to bend the truth until they can't deny the problems anymore will show that very clearly.

But that's not just Apple, it's an industry-wide problem. Apple however have proven themselves to be the grand masters of consumer unfriendly practices.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#624

Post by cherrycherry98 »

galgalesh wrote: post #494
cherrycherry98 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ports types have been converging naturally without government intervention. Even for iPhones, the writing is on the wall for the the lightning connector. It was introduced nearly 10 years ago under different market conditions (no equivalent USB standard existed). Apple is gradually converging on USB-C, MacBooks contain only USB-C ports, the iPad Pro uses USB-C instead of lightning. The rest of the product line can't…

I think you greatly underestimate how much of this "natural convergence" happened because of EU influence. See the memorandum of understanding of 2009. https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/r...

An MoU is not legislation, it's agreement to work together on a common goal. It can be helpful but isn't binding. From the MoU:

"The Signatories retain the right to withdraw from this MoU at any time with immediate effect."

I was demonstrating convergence on USB-C across digital devices. An MoU from 2009 of phone manufacturers agreeing to use microUSB can only partially explain that. Maybe it helped give the idea of USB charging additional momentum. Maybe it would have happened anyway as microUSB was only itself introduced in 2007, and the phone landscape was transitioning to smart phones at this time.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#625

Post by sudosysgen »

nicce wrote: post #591
sudosysgen wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's bullshit. You can carry 240W over USB-C. Physical size limits current, not voltage, and you can increase voltage.

> Physical size limits current, not voltage, and you can increase voltage. Exactly, you need to increase both for better charging speeds. 240W is not a lot for charging if the battery sizes keep growing. To add, increasing only voltage is not good for battery and gets challenging.

But battery sizes are not growing anymore. The latest macbooks have under 60Wh batteries.

Also it's very wrong that voltage is bad for batteries. The voltage going through the cable is transformed down to the exact voltage that the battery charge controller decides is appropriate for the charge of the battery at any given moment.

If you really wanted even more power, which you don't really, there's no reason you couldn't go to 60V.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#626

Post by alpaca128 »

dmitriid wrote: post #452
toyg wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody forces you to buy a consumer-unfriendly product that also happens to be arbitrarily expensive. If somebody in Milan can't afford a Ferrari made in Maranello because the damn company insists in pricing their cars beyond what is reasonable for a 4-wheeled vehicle, it doesn't mean Milan should secede from Italy, surely.

> Nobody forces you to buy a consumer-unfriendly product that also happens to be arbitrarily expensive. If anything, Apple's Lightning port (and the 30-pin connector before that) are significantly more consumer-friendly than USB. Where consumers are consumers of Apple products, but still. In the span of time when Apple only had two connectors, USB went through 3 or 4. USB didn't even have a charging standard until 20…

I fail to see how any kind of proprietary product can be more consumer friendly than an open standard. As I see it that cannot be true by definition.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#628

Post by tengbretson »

kozlowsqi wrote: post #73
sph wrote: post #4

Good, though in practice it's not the charger the problem, I use the same USB plug everywhere, it's Apple and their cable. Right now I always need with me a micro USB cable, an USB-C one, and Lightning, because Apple thinks different™. What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones?

I have like 3 lightning cables, apple deprecating lightning would account to me throwing these cables away and buying usb-c. I suppose other apple users would have to do the same. Not to mention other lightning accessories, headphones and such. Lightning is still included on airpods (pro and max). Furthermore, usb-c is younger than lightning. And lightning was arguably superior to previous usbs (more durable). So whi…

The phone you already have would continue to have a lightning port, so I'm not sure what the issue here is.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#629

Post by Kirby64 »

amelius wrote: post #27
avianlyric wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably they think they can make the jump to a completely wireless phone before any USB-C mandates come in. Apple's timing with the lighting port wasn't great, with it arriving just before USB-C, and I imagine they're very reluctant to change the port on their phones because people already have lightning cables everywhere. Personally I would love to see USB-C on my iPhone, but I look at my parents, and having the po…

> Probably they think they can make the jump to a completely wireless phone before any USB-C mandates come in. What is the efficiency of wireless charging?

An interesting point to think about is that MagSafe appears to be about 75% efficient (due to alignment of coils from the magnets), but also the battery size on iPhones tends to be much smaller than competitor phones.

For example, Samsung S21 uses a 4000mAh battery. iPhone 12 Pro uses a 2700mAh battery.

At 75% efficiency, it's effectively like charging a 3600mAh battery.

Both likely get a full charge every day. So, even with less efficient charging, you come out ahead vs. a Samsung device.

That's also assuming efficiency of the actual charging bricks is similar. Apple tends to be known for high quality and efficient charger bricks, so it wouldn't surprise me if that has an impact.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#630

Post by amelius »

Kirby64 wrote: post #629
amelius wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably they think they can make the jump to a completely wireless phone before any USB-C mandates come in. What is the efficiency of wireless charging?

An interesting point to think about is that MagSafe appears to be about 75% efficient (due to alignment of coils from the magnets), but also the battery size on iPhones tends to be much smaller than competitor phones. For example, Samsung S21 uses a 4000mAh battery. iPhone 12 Pro uses a 2700mAh battery. At 75% efficiency, it's effectively like charging a 3600mAh battery. Both likely get a full charge every day. So, e…

Still, throwing away 25% electricity because "minor convenience" is not such a great idea.
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