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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

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Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#931

Post by tombert »

bitwize wrote: post #736
tombert wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when I was making crap wages, I would get the cheapest laptops I could afford that would more or less give me decent performance (on the order of ~$500-600). It's not too hard to find a new laptop that performs well at a reasonable price, but you always run the risk of them reclaiming those costs by cheaping out on all the mechanics of it, and it's not like I was able to afford paying ~$2000 for a high-quality m…

Instead of buying a brand-new potato, consider buying a used or refurb'd laptop. Your performance stance doing this is much better now compared to.... any time else in PC history because PC hardware performance gains have flattened out. Plus, corporations get rid of perfectly good PCs like, every year because they want the latest model for their staff and especially their executives/management. Know where to shop and…

> Plus, corporations get rid of perfectly good PCs like, every year because they want the latest model for their staff and especially their executives/management.

Tangential, but a bit of a lifehack I figured out awhile ago is that corporations dump off old servers on eBay for basically nothing, and most servers allow you to install a regular desktop graphics card in there. Servers usually have a lot of CPUs and a lot of RAM, so 9 years ago when a broke me needed enough power to do cool stuff on the computer, I would go buy a used server on eBay, and it was good enough for video processing and editing and gaming and distributed computing experiments...as long as I remembered to turn it off when I wasn't using it. Whenever I would accidentally leave it on for a few days, I would end up increasing my power bill by ~$40, a lot of money when you don't have much.

Still, it's a trick I still use occasionally, even now that I make decent money. I semi-recently bought a 48 core, 128gb RAM server for around $400, which I use for any big computing experiments. Could I just spin up an AWS box with these specs? Probably, but I think there is value in being able to have the hardware locally.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#932

Post by leshow »

smoldesu wrote: post #898
resonious wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish people talked about this stuff more when it comes to laptops. Hot temps and loud fans are a super turn-off for me. I'm willing to compromise performance for a quieter, cooler runtime, but usually all I can find out about a laptop is its processor clock speed and a horribly inaccurate battery life estimate.

Computer thermals are weird. You can ultimately choose between a gimped device that stays cool under load or a spectacularly hot, dynamically clocked CPU. I normally cut the clock speed of my CPU in half with any new laptop, since I'm really only going to use it for text editing/SSH. That alone is good enough to lock it below 40c, but there are other ways to achieve a similar effect.

on x86 at least

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#933

Post by bitwize »

tombert wrote: post #931
bitwize wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of buying a brand-new potato, consider buying a used or refurb'd laptop. Your performance stance doing this is much better now compared to.... any time else in PC history because PC hardware performance gains have flattened out. Plus, corporations get rid of perfectly good PCs like, every year because they want the latest model for their staff and especially their executives/management. Know where to shop and…

> Plus, corporations get rid of perfectly good PCs like, every year because they want the latest model for their staff and especially their executives/management. Tangential, but a bit of a lifehack I figured out awhile ago is that corporations dump off old servers on eBay for basically nothing, and most servers allow you to install a regular desktop graphics card in there. Servers usually have a lot of CPUs and a lo…

I once scavenged an HP workstation from behind a dumpster. It was just sitting there in the rain. I brought it in, dried it off, and checked the innards for rust or damage. All looked nearly brand new, so I let it dry out for a couple of days, and powered it on -- it worked. Put a hard disk in and it was ready to go. It's a fairly powerful machine, with four cores and 12 GiB of RAM, a real powerhouse for 2012 when it was new. Probably chewed through many a spreadsheet back in the day. Now I'm making it into a build server.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#935

Post by gregmac »

pavon wrote: post #644
kzrdude wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their modular ports use a lot of space, they could have much more ports built in, unfortunately.

Yeah, being limited to only 4 ports is a complete non-starter for me especially when you are required to use one of them to charge the laptop. So practically everybody is going to end up filling one of those modular ports with a USB-C module, when they could have easily fit two dedicated USB-C ports in the same space, with no practical loss in expandability.

In the future if another alternative to USB-C PD arrives, you could presumably swap out to that module (of course, presuming it's otherwise compatible with the internals).

Also, is there any reason to believe someone wouldn't make a two-port USB-C module provided the market for such a thing exists? Maybe off-the-shelf ICs to do this aren't available (which would make this more expensive and thus less likely), but that doesn't mean that will always be the case.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#936

Post by hobojones »

mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

How does the touchpad perform? I'd love to move away from Apple, but don't want to spend the money on a laptop to be disappointed with that aspect. My experience with non-Apple touchpads has been sub-par so far (looking at you Dell), and it's one of the factors that keeps me ensconced in the Apple ecosystem.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#937

Post by samstave »

mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

What is a 'blank keyboard'?

What I LOVE about the Framework (don't have one yet) -- it hte "Cyberpunk-yness" of the thing....

Imagine the day when our kids are rummaging through a pile of various modules looking for just the right one to plug into their Deck.

This, to me, truly feels like the "deck" from Neuromancer of olde!

What will be great is once modules become a 3rd party aftermarket blast off..

Fiber interfaces, all sorts of other modules and the inevitable future HN post about fake dongles with spy-hardware from china, 'beware of keyloggers on foreign modules' etc...

I hope that certain elements are attached by magnets.

---

Can you directly attach two machines side-by-side with a USBC cable? What if you could chain multiple of these boxes together and have a second deck, which is headless and just swipe between the two desktops on the screen... One KB and Screen and two decks? I have always wanted this.

I truly think its absurd that we havent yet been able to use machines like legos - I think that these decks offer a path to that with multiple decks.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#938

Post by follower »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #700
ericpauley wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

What upsets me about the solution is that the whole laptop is limited to 4 ports. They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. Many other laptops aren't modular - but they offer more than enough ports to make up for it. You need at least 1 USB-C port for charging. If you want to be able to use an external mouse and keyboard without a hub, that's 2 USB-A ports…

> The Framework laptop has upgradeable RAM, but you will have to upgrade it yourself (discarding the RAM that comes with it) if you want more than 32 GB

FWIW, if I understand you correctly, AIUI you can order the "DIY" Framework with no RAM at all, so there's no need to discard anything--but also, just looked now & you can also order the DIY edition with 64GB.

> By the time you want to upgrade the CPU, the mainboard won't be compatible, so what's really there to upgrade?

The mainboard! (Well, that's Framework's plan at least.)

And the mainboards can run standalone too, so you in theory you can use it to automate your house in the future or something too. :)

(With regard to the 2-in-1 aspect, I think it's important to remember that this is Framework's first product range, they need to limit their scope to not spread themselves too thin.)

And people are already starting to experiment with hacking together their own modules, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_uOzNt-xwY who was prototyping with off the shelf "magsafe" style adapters & essentially "rehousing" a wireless mouse dongle.

So with a "universal" wireless mouse + keyboard dongle rehoused in a module you could get two of your ports at least. :)

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#939

Post by forty »

mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

It looks interesting, but isn't 4 a bit too few? My thinkpad has like 8-9 ports. Cannot they put 2 external port on a single module?

Oh and also: where is Ethernet? :)

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#940

Post by samstave »

ericpauley wrote: post #253
mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

external dongles? Apple specifically did this to extend the revenue of their boxes. I cant stand apple any longer. Currently I prefer the HP Omen - (the support from the executive escalation support team is stellar).

but the idea of needing a FN dongle whenever I want to do something is FN archaic. Plus they are over-priced, bulky and are much prone to ultimate failure of either the port (from flexing about when youre on a soft surface like a bed or something.

I have Two AOC USB screens that I use - so I have one laptop, three screens and it all fits into my backpack. the external USB screens are the only "dongles" I want.

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