The last days of Silicon Roundabout • Hacker News Board

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#71

Post by pertymcpert » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 5:15 AM UTC

ackbar03 wrote: post #70

Computeiful wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

>The American "way of life" in particular is not seen as "glamorous" (again anecdotally) and I think most view it as a bit of a step down I'm actually a bit curious about this cultural perception. Could you elaborate a bit more about what the perceived American "way of life" is and how it differs from that of the UK, and why it's a step down? I've only had the chance to study for a bit in the US and never really been…

Comparing life in the Bay Area to life in London: London is a world class capital city with everything that comes with that.

The Bay Area is mostly shithole of strip malls.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#72

Post by zimpenfish » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 5:18 AM UTC

GlennS wrote: post #68

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

The fraction of a given population that will voluntarily migrate is pretty low I think. The gap between London and UK-but-not-London salaries is probably pretty comparable to the one between London and San Francisco, but most people won't move a few hundred kilometers to London to get the extra money. The proportion of people willing to move across the ocean, leave behind friends and family, and embrace a new culture…

> most people won't move a few hundred kilometers to London to get the extra money

There are a bunch of logistical problems there though - London house and rent prices, for example, are ludicrous right now.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#73

Post by pertymcpert » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 5:19 AM UTC

exolymph wrote: post #61

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector? Where do you suggest? I only speak English to any decent level, German to a barely conversational degree, and given brexit, the right to work in a German speaking country is not a given. I sure as hell am not ever going to live in the (no offence) right-wing dystopia…

Meanwhile, in the UK you can be arrested for insulting someone on Twitter.

What do you think they're referring to by "right wing dystopia"? Do you think your reply was an effective counterpoint?

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#74

Post by zimpenfish » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 5:22 AM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #62

fragmede wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANG'll pay $300k (£220k) (all-in) in SF, so £100K is low, even if it's much higher than the local average.

FAANG in London will pay a lot more than £100k too, but parent specifically asked for outside of FAANG. Also there are a lot of fintechs (or pure finance) that will pay more than that. I'd say after about £160k you're going to struggle without moving into some kind of management type of position, though, if you're not at a FAANG or extremely well funded startup. Also bay area COL is substantially higher than London.…

> after about £160k you're going to struggle without moving into some kind of management type of position

Or being a fairly experienced / niche contractor who can get £600+ a day - although that obviously forfeits the job security and benefits (but then is an actual £160k+, not £N+ with intangibles to bring it up.)

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#75

Post by refurb » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

zz865 wrote: post #40

Computeiful wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

I moved to the US from the UK and I think it was a mistake. The first 5 years were great now my kids have settled I feel kinda stuck. I didn't mind working non stop and dedicating life to work, but its a drag.

Find a better job that respects work-life balance? There are plenty in the US if you aim for them.

In my in the bay area you'd be ridiculed if you checked in during a vacation, I took 5 continuous weeks off no problem and emailing off-hours is frowned upon.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#76

Post by smurda » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

I moved from SF to London, and it was refreshing to be in a city where tech was not the dominant industry. In fact, by not working in finance I felt like an outsider and it for a more collegial atmosphere with other tech workers. Silicon Drinkabout (https://silicondrinkabout.com/) was a cool community on Fridays in London to meet other tech people who didn't wear suits.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#77

Post by timomax2 » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 6:05 AM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #64

erdo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally speaking (and I say this as a Brit who really likes the US, and Americans in general whenever I meet them). I haven't tried to move to the US because of the slightly distasteful situation in terms of education, healthcare and social security, car dependence, weirdly low holiday allowance, Foxnews, QAnon, an alarming gun lobby, and the current republican party in general is quite quite shocking to me in it'…

Hmm...I've worked in silicon valley (either there, or remote) for 25 years and have constantly run into brits. The holiday thing isn't quite what it seems because while brits will write down the 1/2 day they took off to go to the dentist, Americans do not. The racist/fascist thing is concerning, but the UK doesn't look so good these days either (Brexit, Boris, ...) US seems to be doing like Churchill said : Always Do…

Brits in white collar jobs don't take holiday to go to the dentist.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#78

Post by refurb » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 6:14 AM UTC

erdo wrote: post #39

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

Personally speaking (and I say this as a Brit who really likes the US, and Americans in general whenever I meet them). I haven't tried to move to the US because of the slightly distasteful situation in terms of education, healthcare and social security, car dependence, weirdly low holiday allowance, Foxnews, QAnon, an alarming gun lobby, and the current republican party in general is quite quite shocking to me in it'…

Methinks your view of the US is way too based on what you read/watch on the internet.

It’s no different than the UK. I could say I don’t want to live there because of rampant alcohol abuse, random crime in London, racial strife from refugees, crazy politicians, insane media who focus too much on some old family with crowns.

But I know that’s not an accurate representation of the UK.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#79

Post by fy20 » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 6:16 AM UTC

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #42

michaelt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector? First of all, working in tech in the UK you can make $130,000 which is 3-4x the median annual salary. Very few Brits would describe that is "extremely low". That's enough money to have a few kids, a wife who doesn't work, and a pretty decent lifestyle. Why move a 10-h…

> First of all, working in tech in the UK you can make $130,000 which is 3-4x the median annual salary. That's not a common compensation at all. I think USA gives way more choices, at the very least finance, big tech and start-ups (that actually offer noticeable equity, unlike UK).

I've been outside the UK for a few years, but when I was there £80k for a senior in London was fairly standard, and I had recruiters emailing me for £100k roles. That's the pre-tax salary; getting some extra compensation or perks would be somewhat expected, but not at US levels.

Outside London it varies a lot though... I'm from the South West and £50k would be a good salary there. But that's no different from some places in the US. If you live in a small town, of course there is less opportunity.

But most people who know their worth become contractors. I've had to work with people on £500/day who I wouldn't even trust to run the tests properly. Selling yourself as a "senior developer" you can easily command a few hundred more. And then there's fintech which goes even higher.

In the UK there isn't that much difference in security from being an employee vs a contractor (you still have state health insurance at the end of the day). Even without the higher rates, the tax benefits alone make it very beneficial, which is why IR35 regulations have been brought in. I know someone who has a company car (Porsche Taycan) which they use to drive to the company yatch...

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#80

Post by willyt » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 6:28 AM UTC

ackbar03 wrote: post #70

Computeiful wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

>The American "way of life" in particular is not seen as "glamorous" (again anecdotally) and I think most view it as a bit of a step down I'm actually a bit curious about this cultural perception. Could you elaborate a bit more about what the perceived American "way of life" is and how it differs from that of the UK, and why it's a step down? I've only had the chance to study for a bit in the US and never really been…

I think a lot of American TV and movies that we see from a young age tend to portray America as some combination of violent, corrupt, venal, frenetic, a struggle. For every thoughtful film or show where no-one brandishes a gun there must be hundreds more the opposite. We get everything you make here as fire hose of content all in the original language in Britain and even though it’s all make believe and most Americans are living normal lives just like most Brits, I think it must have some affect at some level. It’s your brand perception, if you like. I think it probably affects Americans as well but you can’t rationalise it as something that happens somewhere else.