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The last days of Silicon Roundabout

newstatesman.com

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Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#61

Post by exolymph »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #18
lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector? Where do you suggest? I only speak English to any decent level, German to a barely conversational degree, and given brexit, the right to work in a German speaking country is not a given. I sure as hell am not ever going to live in the (no offence) right-wing dystopia…

Meanwhile, in the UK you can be arrested for insulting someone on Twitter.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#62

Post by cameronh90 »

fragmede wrote: post #60
cameronh90 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

£100K+ ($135k) is common enough in fintech, and lately smaller tech startups have been offering that kind of salary. I don't know where those aggregation sites get their data, but it doesn't match my experience. Those same sites will say the average in SF is well below what anyone I know is earning also. I would note salaries are not very transparent in the UK, and most higher end job adverts don't even indicate a ra…

FAANG'll pay $300k (£220k) (all-in) in SF, so £100K is low, even if it's much higher than the local average.

FAANG in London will pay a lot more than £100k too, but parent specifically asked for outside of FAANG.

Also there are a lot of fintechs (or pure finance) that will pay more than that. I'd say after about £160k you're going to struggle without moving into some kind of management type of position, though, if you're not at a FAANG or extremely well funded startup.

Also bay area COL is substantially higher than London. I live in a 4 bed house a 30 min cycle from the City (where I work), and pay around £1500/month.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#63

Post by dboreham »

zz865 wrote: post #40
Computeiful wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

I moved to the US from the UK and I think it was a mistake. The first 5 years were great now my kids have settled I feel kinda stuck. I didn't mind working non stop and dedicating life to work, but its a drag.

Become a freelancer/consultant. Also perhaps consider moving to a different part of the US. I moved from the lower peninsula to small-town Montana 20 years ago and much prefer it here.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#64

Post by dboreham »

erdo wrote: post #39
lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

Personally speaking (and I say this as a Brit who really likes the US, and Americans in general whenever I meet them). I haven't tried to move to the US because of the slightly distasteful situation in terms of education, healthcare and social security, car dependence, weirdly low holiday allowance, Foxnews, QAnon, an alarming gun lobby, and the current republican party in general is quite quite shocking to me in it'…

Hmm...I've worked in silicon valley (either there, or remote) for 25 years and have constantly run into brits.

The holiday thing isn't quite what it seems because while brits will write down the 1/2 day they took off to go to the dentist, Americans do not.

The racist/fascist thing is concerning, but the UK doesn't look so good these days either (Brexit, Boris, ...)

US seems to be doing like Churchill said : Always Do the Right Thing — After Exhausting All the Alternatives

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#65

Post by lostdog »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

[Thanks to all the brits for educating me! I did not realize there where bands of SWE pay that were relatively well compensated.

I have also learned a lot about perceptions of the U.S. Later tonight, when I don the armor I constructed from discarded soda bottles, and leave my home storage locker to scavenge the dumpster scraps from a Kardashian's birthday party, I will reflect on the downsides of Americans' societal choices.]

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#66

Post by tiew9Vii »

Computeiful wrote: post #24
lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

Unless you are a Data engineer, or React Developer a career move to Australia is career suicide. Just go to LinkedIn and search the variety of jobs and salaries across all of Australia compared to the UK, it doesn't even come close. Salaries are one thing but it's also the variety off work that depresses me more. NZ would be even worse.

I came to Australia and had a good four years but now want to leave after the honeymoon period has worn off. I see all my UK friends doing nice interesting work and I'm stuck doing Python ETL sorry big data / data engineering as that's the demand that pays the bills. My partner is Aussie and want's to stay in Australia so I have some tough choices ahead, career or accept the Australia job market and stay with my partner. I know a few developer immigrants in Australia and they all seem to be over it work wise, COVID and not being to leave Australia to see family has been a big decision changer for most of them.

All my old UK friends and colleagues are now contracting. It seems full time salaries are low in the UK but if you are a contractor things are reasonably ok.Haven't been keeping in touch much but I think there's been recent IR35 changes so not sure how that's changed the contracting landscape. On the lower salaries it does look like they are now higher than when I left a few years ago but when you compare to USA it is still night and day.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#67

Post by randomsearch »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

One datapoint fwiw, but someone recently asked me why I hadn’t moved to the US. I reflected on it a while.

First point, I’ve travelled a lot to the US and would definitely not live in SF due to the insane levels of inequality and homelessness. I also like diversity and think it’s a competitive advantage in some domains, SF seems to be a bit of a monoculture. But I do like cities like Boulder and NYC. So it may depend on where in the US you’re looking.

I did consider a move to the US. The biggest deciding factor was the lack of social services, primarily a national health service, but also a welfare state. Partly this was for selfish reasons - I want a safety net for me and my family - but also because I don’t want to see other people suffering.

The U.K. is headed towards the same inequality and poor social provision as the US, we’re both already outliers in the western world, but the additional factor of older family here means I’m unlikely to move to the EU (if I can), at least not yet. So if anything, I’m headed in the other direction.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#68

Post by GlennS »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

The fraction of a given population that will voluntarily migrate is pretty low I think.

The gap between London and UK-but-not-London salaries is probably pretty comparable to the one between London and San Francisco, but most people won't move a few hundred kilometers to London to get the extra money. The proportion of people willing to move across the ocean, leave behind friends and family, and embrace a new culture, is lower still.

But I think the other commenters have it right: when British people dream of living overseas, they dream of Australia, Canada, Spain, and the south of France.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#69

Post by GlennS »

tiew9Vii wrote: post #66
Computeiful wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

Unless you are a Data engineer, or React Developer a career move to Australia is career suicide. Just go to LinkedIn and search the variety of jobs and salaries across all of Australia compared to the UK, it doesn't even come close. Salaries are one thing but it's also the variety off work that depresses me more. NZ would be even worse. I came to Australia and had a good four years but now want to leave after the hon…

I had a really different experience. Sydney is full of jobs, and they're much higher paying than any I had in the UK. I never lived in London though.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#70

Post by ackbar03 »

Computeiful wrote: post #24
lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

>The American "way of life" in particular is not seen as "glamorous" (again anecdotally) and I think most view it as a bit of a step down

I'm actually a bit curious about this cultural perception. Could you elaborate a bit more about what the perceived American "way of life" is and how it differs from that of the UK, and why it's a step down? I've only had the chance to study for a bit in the US and never really been to the UK so I'm quite curious

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