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The last days of Silicon Roundabout

newstatesman.com

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Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#31

Post by pavlov »

lostdog wrote: post #21
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector? Where do you suggest? I only speak English to any decent level, German to a barely conversational degree, and given brexit, the right to work in a German speaking country is not a given. I sure as hell am not ever going to live in the (no offence) right-wing dystopia…

I did mean the USA, but now see that it was implicit (sorry. I probably enforced a bunch of stereotypes right there). I'm very curious if "it's a right-wing dystopia" is a common viewpoint, and whether it comes from direct experience, or just reading about the US. (Not disagreeing at all).

I'm a European living in the US. It's not (yet) a right-wing dystopia, but the political system is clearly teetering at a point of collapse.

The last presidential election was barely certified. Several people were killed in the national parliament building during an insurrection stoked by a candidate. Lies about election security are being spread to undermine public trust.

Those are things that you'd expect to read about elections in some African country, not a Western democracy. Will they be able to certify the next election with only a handful of people killed? I don't know, but I'm planning to get out of here before that.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#32

Post by cosmodisk »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #19
walshemj wrote: post #3

Not surprised there are nicer bits of London to set up in - not surprised the Googles moved to Kings Cross now its gentrified. Before it was Silicon Roundabout BT had a couple of big offices that I used to go to occasionally and the area was a real dump back then. Ironically in 95 or so I was up for a board (promotion) at 207 old street and was extoling all the cool things I was doing with the www and internet - unfo…

Kings Cross is a bizarre no man’s land where it’s hyper gentrified in some ways but also a shitty void with fuck all going on. Bizarre place that experienced 30 years worth of development in 5.

It is a strange place indeed but its development is almost a blueprint for many others in the capital: previously shitty, ran down places being converted into very expensive areas,yet they aren't very livable. I mean what one is supposed to do when they leave their flats that are minutes walk from King's Cross?

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#33

Post by jwdunne »

lostdog wrote: post #21
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector? Where do you suggest? I only speak English to any decent level, German to a barely conversational degree, and given brexit, the right to work in a German speaking country is not a given. I sure as hell am not ever going to live in the (no offence) right-wing dystopia…

I did mean the USA, but now see that it was implicit (sorry. I probably enforced a bunch of stereotypes right there). I'm very curious if "it's a right-wing dystopia" is a common viewpoint, and whether it comes from direct experience, or just reading about the US. (Not disagreeing at all).

I think it is. Whenever I suggested I’d like to move out to the US one day to work on a start up or in the healthy tech scenes, most recoil as if I’m out of my mind.

After seeing the number of massacres/shoot outs, losing an online friend to gun crime, healthcare bankruptcy and seeing Trump get voted in after he mocked a disabled journalist, I too decided I was out of my mind.

I’m not sure if I’m welcome anyway - I’d fair better being a white male but that shouldn’t matter. It just doesn’t look good.

I guess Boris was voted in over here but still… it’s bad but not quite the same level.

I do okay on what I get, I guess.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#34

Post by ca01an »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

UK salaries are a lot lower than US salaries but every country has lower salaries than the US and the UK fares better than most. I would guess this means brits have less incentive to emigrate than people from India or somewhere were salaries are even lower than the UK.

It’s also quite difficult to move to the US from the UK, a lot easier to move to Canada, Australia, New Zealand or the rest of Europe.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#35

Post by mmerlin »

Computeiful wrote: post #24
lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

Perth has the highest per capita percentage migration from the UK, compared with the eastern states of Australia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth#Ancestry_and_immigrati...

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#36

Post by jon-wood »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

Extremely low compared to what? I’m in a competitively paid position as a principle developer for a large London technology company. Not renowned for high salaries, but also not bottom of the market.

Most people I know in basically any other industry make less money pre-tax than I have left over after tax, deductions, rent, and bills. I’m sure I could find things to do with more money, just as anyone can, but I definitely hit the point a while ago where more money would significantly improve my level of happiness.

Given that, why would I pack up my entire life and start over in another country?

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#37

Post by zz865 »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

Compared to SF/NY salaries are low. Compared to Chicago/Denver/Houston UK tech salaries are probably similar. Traditionally the big banks in the city paid very highly but since the financial collapse pay has stagnated.

A low level of respect follows the money. London has a lot of traders, big company execs, politicians, lawyers, accountants etc they all pay more than IT.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#38

Post by michaelt »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector?

First of all, working in tech in the UK you can make $130,000 which is 3-4x the median annual salary. Very few Brits would describe that is "extremely low".

That's enough money to have a few kids, a wife who doesn't work, and a pretty decent lifestyle.

Why move a 10-hour flight away from all my friends and family, just because I could earn enough to drive a Lamborghini instead of a Lotus Elise?

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#39

Post by erdo »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

Personally speaking (and I say this as a Brit who really likes the US, and Americans in general whenever I meet them). I haven't tried to move to the US because of the slightly distasteful situation in terms of education, healthcare and social security, car dependence, weirdly low holiday allowance, Foxnews, QAnon, an alarming gun lobby, and the current republican party in general is quite quite shocking to me in it's transparent gaslighting, racism and anti-democratic (small d) tendencies. The UK has its fair share of opportunistic charlatans too of course, ahem. That's why I now live in mainland Europe, get great health care, fast trains, fast internet, good work life balance etc though I probably earn less than I would if I was in the US

There are plenty of good reasons to move [to the US] too of course, and I do know quite a few who have (including my sister who loves it, and I suspect is never going to move back to rainy Britain)

There might be another reason you don't see many brit developers in the US though, we probably just don't produce that many of them. I worked in London for 20 years and the typical dev team had less than 50% Brits in it even there. Looking at Hollywood we seem to produce a lot more actors that can do a passable American accent than developers.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#40

Post by zz865 »

Computeiful wrote: post #24
lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

I moved to the US from the UK and I think it was a mistake. The first 5 years were great now my kids have settled I feel kinda stuck. I didn't mind working non stop and dedicating life to work, but its a drag.
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