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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

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Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#491

Post by philjohn »

dnr wrote: post #271
brightball wrote: post #166

> I really miss my Thinkpad Trackpoint This is one of those comments I will never understand. Every single time I have tried to use one of those things the only thought that goes through my mind is, "This is the dumbest mouse interface I have ever seen. Why would anyone ever use this thing?" And then I see comments like this. I don't get it. The ergonomics of those little nubs are awful .

This is one of those religious arguments where no one will every change their mind, but I feel like a trackpad is the dumbest mouse interface and can't use anything but a trackpoint (or a mouse of course). Consider dragging and dropping: with a trackpoint you click with your thumb, then use your pointer finger to move the mouse cursor any distance you like, without moving your hand, then release. With a trackpad you…

I was a big proponent of the trackpoint for the longest time - the first laptop I used in the mid 90's (a Toshiba Satellite) had one and then I used Thinkpads for years.

Then I got a MBP at work in 2016 and haven't looked back - but they were far better than most other trackpads for the longest time.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#492

Post by NotPractical »

The baseline, preassembled model starts at $1000. Windows 10 Home, quad-core i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB storage, a nice 2256x1504 display, thin and light (1.3kg, 11.7" x 9" x 0.6"). Compare that to your other thin and light options at this pricepoint.

XPS 13, $1020

* i5

* 8 GB RAM

* 256 GB storage

* 1920 x 1200 display

* 1.2 kg, 11.6" x 7.8" x 0.6"

MacBook Pro: $1300

* M1

* 8 GB RAM

* 256 GB storage

* 2560 x 1600 display

* 1.4kg, 12" x 8.7" x 0.6"

It's almost a no-brainer, even without considering the repairability, unless you like macOS. Unfortunately, not many people see repairability as a feature yet due to the toxic status quo, but this could change. I think that after brand recognition is established, this laptop could legitimately be competitive in the laptop market, and not just appeal to hardcore techies.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#493

Post by lufte »

renke1 wrote: post #444
lufte wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the requirement for someone to build a trackpoint for the Framework laptop? Would they need to design a whole new keyboard plus a touchpad with the three buttons?

I don't really know, but since there are no manufacturers that built good TrackPoints I think its either hard or there really is no demand (sadly more likely). I don't need a touchpad though. Actually, one of the best laptops I've owned was one without a touchpad [1]. [1]: https://thinkwiki.de/Datei:TP_X60_2.jpg

> I don't really know, but since there are no manufacturers that built good TrackPoints I think its either hard or there really is no demand (sadly more likely).

Those are good points. I'm thinking there could be patents involved too.

> I don't need a touchpad though. Actually, one of the best laptops I've owned was one without a touchpad [1].

That's true! I don't really use the touchpad on my X230, even though it's there.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#494

Post by kzrdude »

mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

Their modular ports use a lot of space, they could have much more ports built in, unfortunately.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#495

Post by notriddle »

hinkley wrote: post #378
cogman10 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been told for years that "slim and tiny is what you really want!" No, I don't want slim and tiny, I want to be able to replace and upgrade parts. I want a battery I can swap out or RAM I can replace. The problem is that being able to swap parts extends service life of machines. Can't have that when they want you to just buy a new one ever 3 years.

Slim and tiny is what I wanted when thinkpads were smaller and lighter than average. Once we hit five pounds and I had a bag that stopped caring about smaller laptops? Well that was about the time that desktops died and I could have used a workstation class laptop with some more flexibility. But I opted for simple and put my energy somewhere else instead. Seems a lot of people did.

Also, laptops have built-in keyboards, by definition, which means that it can never be thinner than the key travel distance anyway.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#496

Post by xipho »

bambax wrote: post #432

> I've bought a new Thinkpad almost every year since 2006 But why?? If the current one isn't broken, why would you need to buy a new laptop and go through the hassle of setting it up? My laptop is from 2013 and is still fine. Parts of my desktop computer are from 2007 -- the case is from 1993, and nothing is more recent than 2015, and everything is running super smooth. Getting an entire new machine every single year…

The author states they travelled 27 days a month, every month. I doubt many people put that much stress on their laptops.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#497

Post by FullyFunctional »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #460
turtlebits wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not going to argue your preference for a trackpoint, dragging with a trackpad is not as you describe. You just leave your thumb "clicked" and reposition your index finger. IME, using a trackpoint is okay for smaller laptop screens, but going from monitor to monitor kinda sucks.

macOS has an option (in the accessibility prefs) to enable three-finger trackpad dragging. It's incredible to use, especially in concert with Magnet (a window management app). Three-finger-drag a window to the top of the screen and it's instantly maximized. Selecting text is also a breeze.

Wow, thanks for that tip. It's awesome and feels so natural.

I really hope Ubuntu and friends get "inspired" by all the touchpad gestures in macOS.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#498

Post by eikenberry »

bambax wrote: post #462
yobert wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read a little lower in the article he mentions it being a reward mechanism for stopping smoking. So each year he doesn't smoke, he rewards himself with a new laptop. Good strategy!

Yeah, this is rationalizing. You don't need to reward yourself every year for something you do once. You quit smoking, you get a reward, end of story. Also, and that's where we differ (and kind of my point): setting up a new computer isn't a reward for me, it's a punishment.

You don't quit smoking once. You quit smoking every day. I haven't smoked in >10 years and I'm still quitting. Physical dependence on nicotine takes a long time to recover from.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#499

Post by bavell »

clepto wrote: post #426

I just got one of these last weekend(I ordered it in early August) and so far it’s really great. The modular I/O and general mission of the company was what initially sold me on it, but now actually being hands on with it, I definitely feel secure in my decision to get one. I can’t overstate how good these modular ports are. I also really like that you can bring your own hardware in a lot of cases. For example I had…

Thanks for the report on Arch compatibility!

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#500

Post by carpo »

bambax wrote: post #462
yobert wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read a little lower in the article he mentions it being a reward mechanism for stopping smoking. So each year he doesn't smoke, he rewards himself with a new laptop. Good strategy!

Yeah, this is rationalizing. You don't need to reward yourself every year for something you do once. You quit smoking, you get a reward, end of story. Also, and that's where we differ (and kind of my point): setting up a new computer isn't a reward for me, it's a punishment.

For some people giving up an addiction is an ongoing battle, not a one time and done thing.
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